Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I went to my local herp shop and was talking to the guy who owns the place. I asked him about playsand and he said its a big big no-no. all play sand here is 100% silica. He said he had used playsand on all his dragons that he keeps personally at home and breeds and says the playsand was impacting his dragons. he says hes since gone to calcium-carbonate sand and has never had any problems.

I decided to take a drive and go to Toys-R-Us. sure enough the playsand they brought me was 1005 silica from US Silica. i did not buy it of course. and my local HD didnt have any playsand left.

He went on telling me that the calcium-carbonate stuff is completely harmless and that the reptilite im using is ok cuz its a very fine sand.

I was thinking abt using the Zoo-Med Desert Sand or the Calci-Sand but i read on a website thats a big no no too.

Its so confusing i dont kno where to go!!!!

Ive been using the reptilite and havent had any problem with it. i saw some sand particles in my dragons droppings but it seemed to have just passed through him.
Link

Silica sand is basicly gone from the marketplace. If it is sold at all it must have a silica warning. Silica dust is known to cause cancer so I doubt you can buy it as "play sand" even if you wanted to. Yes, Toys R Us sand is made by "US Silica". But it is not silica sand and does not have the required silica warning on the bag. It is sold under the Lighthouse brand name and is completely safe for your herps and children. Your herp store guy was probably talking about some time ago and is just not up to date.

Calcium whatever sand. First of all it is too expensive. I just bought 1000lbs. from Toys R Us yesterday and can't imagine what that volume would be in a pet store. The bigest problem with Calcium whatever sand is that your dragons may eat it because they think it is a food or calcium source. You don't want your dragons to eat any substrate as it may have bacteria or other issues that could harm your dragon.

Regular sand is great. In my opinion the best substrate for dragons. What you buy at Toys R Us now is naturally occuring sand with smooth edges. Silica Sand is man made crushed rock with sharp edges.

Also the pet shop owner is interested in selling his product. Regardless or what substrate you choose to use you should change it every 90 days. Even with one dragon that can be a lot of something depending on your cage size.

He said "the playsand was impacting his dragons". Impaction isn't really an adjustable thing. It would have been more believable if he said "x" amount of my dragons died from impaction.

I specifically looked for the "Lightouse" brand name and did not see that at all on the bag. The bag however had a silica warning and as i looked at the sand it was rough and i could even feel sharp edges poking me through the bag.

The bag even said that it was 100% Silica Sand. Regardless i did not buy the sand.

I am down here in Miami, FL and it could be possible the silica sand has not been taken off the shelves at all.

I don't know what you mean by "did not see that all on the bag".

All i can say is I went out to my garage and looked at the bags of Lighthouse Brand sand I got from Toys R Us in Mays Landing, NJ yesterday. There is no silica or cancer warning at all on the bags.

If what you say is true I would buy from a different source. I figure in Miami you should be able to call around and find beach sand of some sort.

What i meant was, i did not see any Lighthouse logo or name anywhere on the bag. the bag was plain and just said Play Sand. I looked on the back of the bag and there was a huge discalimer saying how they would not be held resposible for any problems that arise using the sand. later on in the disclaimer it said clearly "100% Silica"

I will look around here to see if i can find beach sand that has been sifted and cleaned and all that.

But im 100% sure there was no Lighthouse brand name or anything of that sort on the bag, i was specifically looking for the brand name and didnt see it on the bag. and when i asked the worker who brought me said bag he didnt know what i was talking about. i flipped the bag on every side looking for anything that would say Lighthouse. nothing. even on the Toys R Us website i have not been able to find any play sand of any kind.

as for thinking all sand is made from silica i dont think that. i understand there are all forms of sand coming from different rocks and minerals not just silica.

If i cant find a suitable type of playsand i will look into the natural sand ie; coming here from miami beach. im hoping natural sand would be better for them as long as i can find it already cleaned and all. or i could just do all that myself and place it in the oven.

do you think the beach sand would be a good idea...seeing as its natural????

They must be selling another brand. There is no way you can miss the Lighthouse lable. lol.

I don't see anything wrong with beach sand but I have never used it. You would have to wash it and bake it first though.

Your absolutely right you cannot miss the brand name on the bags you have. but i can assure you the bags at the Toys-R-Us here looked nothing like that....the bags were completely see through minus a portrait of a boy and girl playing in sand but it was just an outline in red and blue everything was see through.

Ill keep looking for that brand of plpay sand and i shall let you know if i find it anywhere....

Thanks Again!

There are different brands of children's playsand. The kind you found I definitely would not use, since it says it is silica. The one bag of play sand I bought from Home Depot is 'King' brand but it is a Canadian brand so I highly doubt you would find it in Florida. You may have to shop around for a silica free sand to use for your dragons.

Oh, and one other note, not all beach sand is silica free, so even collecting it off the beach doesn't mean it will be 100% silica free...not to mention the other stuff that it will contain, everything from salt (from the ocean of course), bits and pieces of broken shells, dead sea creatures, seaweed, garbage, etc. Some of this can be easily seen and removed, others will have to be washed out (ie the salt) and smaller pieces of shell etc, may not be easy to spot.
-----
PHLdyPayne

He probably thinks that all sand is made out of silica, and in alot of cases sand is silica. But, not all sand is silica based, some are granite, just crushed by nature, into a very fine powder. Because silica dust has been shown to cause irritation in the lungs, including cancer, due to sharp glass getting into the lung cavities and eventually cutting into the flesh there, causing all kinds of problems, you can't buy sand for things like children's sand boxes etc. Same with ceramic clay. It is all sold as silica free for the same reason...clay dust is much finer than most sand dust and has to be silica free.

Calcium carbonate, which is what most calcium based sands are made, are said to be digestible but they are not. The grains are too big and are not in the stomach long enough to even start to break down. In fact, it tends to clump together, neutralizes stomach acids and has a high risk of causing impactions. One person did an experiment awhile ago, he measures a very exact amount of calcium based sands (I couple of types, including that reptilite stuff) put it into hydrochloric acid about the same strength as found in the digestive tract of dragons and left it in there for a week or two....then he drained all the acid, dried out the sand and weighed it. He was using a pretty acurate scale for it too, and he noticed no appreciable decrease in the amount of sand. If it was digestible, it would have broken down and adsorbed into the acid...but it didn't, it just stayed there.

Calcium powder we dust insects with is about a million times finer than calcium based sands, hence it does absorb much easier. Its like dropping a tiny granule of sugar into water and dropping a sugar cube into water...which one dissolves first?

All that being said, it doesn't mean every single dragon housed on calcium based sand will be impacted. It just means they have a higher chance of being impacted. Other factors can affect the chances impaction occurs. Insufficient water for one can make it that much harder to 'flush' out the sand, temps not hot enough etc. Regular children's play sand is not 100% safe either, it can cause impactions as well, but has a less of a risk than calcium based sands or crushed walnuts.
-----
PHLdyPayne

Just go to Home Depot or Lowe's. You'll find it on the aisle with all the concrete mixes. It's about five bucks for fifty pounds.
-----
0.10.0 Ball Pythons
0.1.0 Leopard Geckos
0.0.1 Egyptian Tortoise

Great idea with the concrete mix. See what happens when the poo on it.

ecrowell-go back and re-read what eminart said. he said you will FIND the PLAYSAND in the aisle with the concrete mix, not use concrete mix. read closer next time before making a comment like that.

and eminart, if u read the previous posts, ull see he did go to HD and they didnt have any, thats why he went to toys r us
-----
Beach Beardies

2.2. bearded dragons
1.1. Sugar Gliders
0.2. Felines *queen athena and missy*

>>and eminart, if u read the previous posts, ull see he did go to HD and they didnt have any, thats why he went to toys r us
>>-----

Ooops, you're right. I did read the posts, but I somehow missed the part where he also tried Home Depot. I just thought he might not know that HD sells "play"sand. Apparently he does.
-----
0.10.0 Ball Pythons
0.1.1 Leopard Geckos
0.0.1 Egyptian Tortoise