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I called my vet today and she said that the bone deformities that i am describing to her could be secondary mbd, what is that? also she said it could be parasites.... any possibility? i don't see how parasites would deform their bones, is she just trying to get me to waste more money. if i do indeed know it is mbd should i just go with treatment myself because a checkout alone costs 50 bucks!

Yes, this secondary, because bone fractures are second to happening after the first one, which is overdosing. Here are couple types of bone fractures:The two main vitamins overdosed are: Most overdosing involves Vitamin A; clinically these animals initially become dull and start to pick at their food. Their activity levels are very low and they start to sleep a lot. After a time some may become noticeably jaundiced whilst others pass away before reaching this stage. Normal dietary Vitamin D overdosing in itself does not cause many problems, but when there is too much preformed Vitamin D3 (when feeding excess animal protein) this can lead to secondary problems associated with calcium metabolism. The problem is that with the ingestion of too much Vitamin D3, there is absorption of too much calcium. The high levels of blood calcium cause calcium salts to be deposited in tissues where they are not normally found. Many cases of arteriosclerosis are caused in this way and are very difficult to treat, but easy to prevent - see back to calcium supplementation section. Far from proving it, but I have seen a few chameleons where excessive D3 supplementation has coincided with head tilt and other relatively mild neurological deficits, some of which seemed to resolve with time and a lower Vitamin D regime. This usually occurs due to one of three reasons. a) A growing animal is supplemented to excess. However, due to the diluting effect of growth, the build up of the extra lipid soluble vitamins are contained and the animal copes with the excess. As the animal stops growing however, it is less able to cope with these excess vitamins and this causes overdosing.
b) During quiescent stages i.e. late winter, when there is a slowing in growth and lack of activity and appetite. At this time fat breakdown will release more of the stored vitamins to compound the already high levels found in the system.
c) A new animal is bought and an excessively high vitamin regime is started. Initially this has little effect as the body stores the extra vitamins, but given time the storage capacity is reached and the effects of the overdosing manifest themselves. This problem is easily avoided: Use supplements as described and change your regime with time and growth activity! Bone fractures are not common in Chameleons due to their more sedatory lifestyle when compared to many other lizard species. However I have seen a few and these occur for one of two reasons: Pathological Fractures: Poor calcium supplementation has meant that the bones are excessively soft and in these cases trauma that would otherwise have been resisted has broken the bone. This is seen in very weak hypocalcaemic animals that are soft boned and that weak that they fall off their branches. See back to previous sections on calcium metabolism for more details of what constitutes an adequate calcium regime and how to alleviate problems already present. Traumatic Fractures: This is where there is a lot of force applied across a bone, which then breaks. This is most commonly associated with either large males biting other smaller individuals legs or where animals have been traumatised by human contact such as being dropped during handling or accidentally shut in the door etc. Fractures can occur to any bone but are most commonly seen in limbs although spinal, rib or tail fractures can occur; the clinical presentation depends on which bone has been fractured. Limb bone fractures present as an inability to weight bare, pain on flexion, grating of bone on bone, skin perforation with the sharp bone end etc. Similarly, spinal fractures can result in paraplegia and loss of hind leg function and/or pain response. Treatment - along with treating any underlying cause, this is best summed up as immobilisation of the fracture site. The aim is to stabilise the fracture such that the fractured bone ends are bought as close to each other as possible. This aids with the healing process, reduces the pain and reduces further collateral tissue damage. In the case of Chameleons this is usually best achieved with the use of "Micropore" dressings around the affected area. This need only be one or two thicknesses and the nature of the tape makes it easy to remove and replace weekly allowing the covered skin to be cleaned. The capacity to heal even horrific looking fractures with rest, a good calcium regime and effective splinting is quite amazing, but also depend son the age and growth status of the Chameleon concerned. Where the broken bone ends have pierced the skin it is very important to suture the skin and maintain antibiotics for a considerable time. Rib fractures tend to naturally heal with time as they are "splinted" by the other surrounding ribs.
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Ethan

...wouldn't it have been easier to just link him to the page you took this from rather than cut and paste and have him read it all in a post?? Also, it is expected, and ethical, to cite where and whom information comes from when quoting someone else's work.

Just FYI

lele

>>Yes, this secondary, because bone fractures are second to happening after the first one, which is overdosing. Here are couple types of bone fractures:The two main vitamins overdosed are: Most overdosing involves Vitamin A; clinically these animals initially become dull and start to pick at their food. Their activity levels are very low and they start to sleep a lot. After a time some may become noticeably jaundiced whilst others pass away before reaching this stage. Normal dietary Vitamin D overdosing in itself does not cause many problems, but when there is too much preformed Vitamin D3 (when feeding excess animal protein) this can lead to secondary problems associated with calcium metabolism. The problem is that with the ingestion of too much Vitamin D3, there is absorption of too much calcium. The high levels of blood calcium cause calcium salts to be deposited in tissues where they are not normally found. Many cases of arteriosclerosis are caused in this way and are very difficult to treat, but easy to prevent - see back to calcium supplementation section. Far from proving it, but I have seen a few chameleons where excessive D3 supplementation has coincided with head tilt and other relatively mild neurological deficits, some of which seemed to resolve with time and a lower Vitamin D regime. This usually occurs due to one of three reasons. a) A growing animal is supplemented to excess. However, due to the diluting effect of growth, the build up of the extra lipid soluble vitamins are contained and the animal copes with the excess. As the animal stops growing however, it is less able to cope with these excess vitamins and this causes overdosing.
>>b) During quiescent stages i.e. late winter, when there is a slowing in growth and lack of activity and appetite. At this time fat breakdown will release more of the stored vitamins to compound the already high levels found in the system.
>>c) A new animal is bought and an excessively high vitamin regime is started. Initially this has little effect as the body stores the extra vitamins, but given time the storage capacity is reached and the effects of the overdosing manifest themselves. This problem is easily avoided: Use supplements as described and change your regime with time and growth activity! Bone fractures are not common in Chameleons due to their more sedatory lifestyle when compared to many other lizard species. However I have seen a few and these occur for one of two reasons: Pathological Fractures: Poor calcium supplementation has meant that the bones are excessively soft and in these cases trauma that would otherwise have been resisted has broken the bone. This is seen in very weak hypocalcaemic animals that are soft boned and that weak that they fall off their branches. See back to previous sections on calcium metabolism for more details of what constitutes an adequate calcium regime and how to alleviate problems already present. Traumatic Fractures: This is where there is a lot of force applied across a bone, which then breaks. This is most commonly associated with either large males biting other smaller individuals legs or where animals have been traumatised by human contact such as being dropped during handling or accidentally shut in the door etc. Fractures can occur to any bone but are most commonly seen in limbs although spinal, rib or tail fractures can occur; the clinical presentation depends on which bone has been fractured. Limb bone fractures present as an inability to weight bare, pain on flexion, grating of bone on bone, skin perforation with the sharp bone end etc. Similarly, spinal fractures can result in paraplegia and loss of hind leg function and/or pain response. Treatment - along with treating any underlying cause, this is best summed up as immobilisation of the fracture site. The aim is to stabilise the fracture such that the fractured bone ends are bought as close to each other as possible. This aids with the healing process, reduces the pain and reduces further collateral tissue damage. In the case of Chameleons this is usually best achieved with the use of "Micropore" dressings around the affected area. This need only be one or two thicknesses and the nature of the tape makes it easy to remove and replace weekly allowing the covered skin to be cleaned. The capacity to heal even horrific looking fractures with rest, a good calcium regime and effective splinting is quite amazing, but also depend son the age and growth status of the Chameleon concerned. Where the broken bone ends have pierced the skin it is very important to suture the skin and maintain antibiotics for a considerable time. Rib fractures tend to naturally heal with time as they are "splinted" by the other surrounding ribs.
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>>Ethan

alreynolds2003-

From what I get, from what the vet explained over the phone, is that yes MBD looks to be the problem, it could actually be parasites that are the main problem and MBD is secondary to that. In other words the first problem is the parasites which are not allowing the chameleon to absorb calcium/D3/Vitamins this causing a second problem of MBD (a chain reaction). I would take the chameleon in at this point to get a fecal done and let the vet check the chameleon out. Self-treatment is not recommended, unless you have medical experience. I would call the vet back and make an appointment ASAP, you can get some of the worst parasites from the simplest places like crickets! What Ethan posted was typed out of a book or off the net and really only pertains to MBD issues. I just spent over $120 on vet two vet visits last month, it just goes with owing these beautiful animals. Hope this helps!
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John @ Chameleon Paradise
1.1 Ambilobe Panthers
1.1 Nosy Be Panthers
1.1 Sambava Panthers
1.2 Rhampholeon uluguruensis