Reptile & Amphibian Forums

O.K I'm getting 2 baby Bearded Dragons from the same clutch next week.

-Here's how they'll be set up.

1.) They'll be in a 36 x 16 x 17 glass Terrarium with 3 sides covered with a backround so they'll only be exposed in the front.

2.) I'm going to have a ESU desert 24 inch 7% UVB flourescent bulb.

3.) I'm also going to have a 150 watt Exo-Terra ceramic heat emitter which will be controlled by an ESU 1,000 watt 3 outlet Temperature Controller. ( The Temperature Controller will maintain a 100-105 Degree basking spot and an overall air temperature of 84-90 degrees )

4.) I plan on primarilly feeding as vegetables what I feed my Tortoise and Turtles, Collards, Mustard Greens, Endive and Escarole along with Green and Red Leaf Lettuce, Kale, and Beet and Turnip Greens every once in a while.

5.) As far as meat goes, I will feed Mealworms, Crickets and Waxworms, with Mealworms and Crickets being fed the majority of the time. I will also give them Silkworms whem my cocoons hatch and the moths lay eggs that hatch.

6.) In the Terrarium I will have papertowels as a substrate with 3 Half logs as hides, a small water dish a big piece of driftwood for them to climb on and 2 dishes one for vegetables and the other for worms.

These are the first Bearded Dragons I will have so if I'm not doing something right, PLEASSSSSSSSSSSSSSE let me know. I have experience with Leopard Geckos, Desert Tortoises and Three Toed Box Turtles.

Thanks in advance,
-Tony C

ok first thing is to remember housing BDs together isnt always a good idea. you have to watch for a dominate and submissive one. also breeding them is a BIG no-no as they are from the same clutch so you will have to seperate them later if they are male and female. 2 males cannot be housed together either. and a bigger cage will be needed if housed together as adults.

skip out on the ceramic heat emitter, waste of money and no light. dragons like the added light other than from UVB. just use a basic house bulb as a heat bulb. play with the wattages to get the temp you need. your basking temps should be around 115 for young dragon, 105-110 for adults.

and skip mealworms superworms and waxworms for baby dragons as well. mealworms and supers are too tough for babies to digest. these should not be fed to dragons younger than 6 months IMO. waxworms are high in fat. if you want a nice worm to feed them, try pheonix worms. high in calcium easy to digest. then you got your boring old crickets as well. and roaches are always a great choice.
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Beach Beardies

2.2. bearded dragons
1.1. Sugar Gliders
0.2. Felines *queen athena and missy*

I don't plan on breeding and the guy I'm getting them from incubated for females I think.

What wattage light bulb?

-Tony C

1. As long as the dragons are within 1 1/2 inches of each other they are fine together. I always fed in a separate tank though. That way I could monitor that each dragon got enough food and there wouldn't be an accident where a dragon looses a toe or tail tip while the other was going for a cricket. Just make sure the basking area is large enough that both dragons can bask comfortably without competition for the best spot. I'd get a 20L to feed them in. And keep in mind that you will need a much larger enclosure when they grow up.

2. I would get a 36" UVB for a 36" enclosure. I'm a Zoo Med believer so I can't comment on the ESU. A Zoo Med 5% is for distances of 12" or less from the bulb. A Zoo Med 10% has penetration of up to 20" and should also be used if passing through a fine screen.

3. I agree with beachbeardies, skip the CHE. Use a basking spot instead. I can't tell you the wattage because you will have to test it dependant on distance, room temp. etc. Never heard of the ESU Temperature Controller. I use Helix Thermostats.

4. I'm good with this.

5. I again agree with beachbeardies regarding skipping superworms until they are pretty much adults. I never feed Waxworms (too fatty) or mealworms (just no good. lol) Never feed mealworms to babies under 12" they are a real impaction risk. But I have to disagree with beachbeardie's "boring old crickets"

See Beachbeardie has city dragons. So they have learned to adjust to the local cuisine. I have country dragons and they love crickets. All baby's love country food until they are poisoned by the neighborhood uppity snobs. lol. Did you ask the breeder if he was breeding city or country dragons?

6. Sounds good.

Yeah, I plan on getting a much larger enclosure but for now I think the 36 x 16 x 17 will do. About the heating if you guys use a light bulb what do you do at night? I want to use a ceramic heat emitter because I want to provide heat for a full 24 hours without interupting their day/night cycle. They are the same size and are 2 1/2 weeks old. The ESU temperature control is just a thermometer which you plug your heating device into and then you set the dial to the desired temperature and you place the probe in the terrarium wherever you want the temperature measured, it then turns the heating device on and off to keep the set temperature exact. Also do you guys think that the lighting will be sufficient?

-Tony C

About the heating if you guys use a light bulb what do you do at night? I want to use a ceramic heat emitter because I want to provide heat for a full 24 hours without interupting their day/night cycle. >>-Tony C

Well, the sun isn't up at night. I'm not a bearded dragon expert, but I don't think they need much heat at night.

Secondly, (for those of you saying it) where is the evidence that mealworms cause impaction? I see this all the time on various forums for various species, but I'm not sure I buy it. The leo forum folks often say the same thing about mealworms, but Ron Tremper himself feeds his leos almost exclusively on mealworms at ALL ages. Lizards evolved to eat insects. Insects have an exoskeleton made of chitin. I don't think lizards have any trouble digesting it, as long as their temperature and moisture needs are met.
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0.10.0 Ball Pythons
0.1.1 Leopard Geckos
0.0.1 Egyptian Tortoise

It's bad and unnatural to heat their enclosure to daytime temps. 24 hours. I would not suggest the ESU temp. controller. The daytime heat should be provided by a light source like a household bulb or a spot light bulb. At night temps are fine down to the 60's. This time of year I use nothing at night. In the winter I use a black nightime bulb to keep the enclosure at about 68. The ESU controller only turns the heat source on/off so it wouldn't work with anything but the CHE. If you want temp. control invest the extra money into a Helix thermostat. It is a proportional thermostat that dims and brightens the basking bulb to regulate the temp. Just remember whatever you get you can't put the temp. probe on the basking spot. So some experimentation will be required to figure out the right setting.

As far as mealworms go and to answer the other posters question. Mealworms have the worst calcium to phosphorus ratio of any feeder available. They are high in fat and they have a hard chitin shell. Regardless of whether you feel they are an impaction risk I just don't see the value in feeding this with much better options available.

BDlvr- "poisoned by the insects of city snobs" HAHAHA how rude LOL j/k. yes i admit i live in the city. but not reason for feeding my dragons roaches instead of crickets. as my dragons got older they didnt pay much attention to crickets anymore. plus crickets got expensive. i turned to roaches because of the meat to water ratio. crickets contain 90% body water when roaches contain much less and alot more meat. thus means the less roaches needed to be fed to fill up your dragon. plus, they are much easier to keep in bulk because they dont die as fast as crickets. and no smell as well is always a plus side. so its not that im against crickets or had to adapt to whats available where i live, its been whats best to feed my dragons. its actually easier to get crickets where im at, i just choose not to.

as far as the night time heat, this is not normal for dragons. in the wild temps of course drop during the night, as they should in captivity. keeping temps up during the night is not good for a dragon and will not let their bodies adjust properly. this is why we dont suggest using the CHE and just use a house bulb and have it on a timer to turn off at night.

and as far as mealworms are concerned...theres no known fact they cause impaction, but their shell is very hard. if you look closely to a dragons poop after they eat a mealworm you can actually see most of the mealworm, this is not good. that means they are not digesting properly. plus their nutrtional value is pretty much worthless. try pheonix worms, much better for dragons and leopard geckos as well. hornworms are also another good one
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Beach Beardies

2.2. bearded dragons
1.1. Sugar Gliders
0.2. Felines *queen athena and missy*

At night can't I just adjust my ESU heat controller and set it to 68 or so degrees? Won't that work? I definitely was'nt planning on keeping the temperature at night, the same as it would be during the day?

-Tony C

well unless your room temp in your house drops below 60 degress there is no point keeping any heat source at 68 degrees at night, because thats will be the room temp.
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Beach Beardies

2.2. bearded dragons
1.1. Sugar Gliders
0.2. Felines *queen athena and missy*

Did'nt even think of that!

-Tony C

You'd have to adjust it every night when the lights go off. Way too much hassle for a reptile that really doesn't need night time heat in most cases.

Seriously, save the $26 for the ESU temp controller, it's just a waste of money. When you can afford it buy the Helix. It's well worth the $130.

First let me say you seemed to have done your homework, with a few exceptions. Just over 2 years ago I was in the same situation. I brought my 2 babies from the same clutch home and watched them for hours at a time. As they got older I noticed one dragon was dominating the other, as in taking the best basking spot, and eating most of the food. The other was getting stressed out and not growing as fast. We soon realized we had a male and a female. The male would try to have sex with the female, so we had to separate for 2 reasons. The female was way too small to breed which could be dangerous for her, and they are more than likely brother and sister. Other scenarios you could run into are if you get 2 males they could fight till death once they reach puberty. I sure people will post below me about putting 2 dragons together as it can be a controversial topic. The terrarium you have will definitely work for now, but as they reach adulthood you will need something bigger, and possibly 2 terrariums if you need to separate them. Only one problem with what you will be feeding them. Mealworms are a big NO NO for babies. I personally don't feed them at all. The shell is too hard and will create allot of problems which can possibly kill you new dragons. I hope this wasn't too negative cause I regret nothing and still love all 3 dragons I have now. Good Luck.