Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Do all 100% het pieds have clear bellies or is that just a marker some carry?

Some hets carry the "marker" some do not. Some normals also carry the marker. One of my het pied males does not have the "marker"~ but I am sure he is a 100% het (purchased him proven from RDR)

Some normals have what is generally considered the "marker"~ this is an 03'LTC normal female I bred to the het pied male above (hoping I was gonna get lucky!)

This pairs babies hatched this week~ I got 1.5 50% het pieds out of them. Some of them have the "marker" but considering their normal mother has the "Marker" and thier 100% het father does not......it won't be a reliable "marker". I rather suspect that will happen more and more as people try their "normal" females with the marker on their het males. (I've got another clutch by another normal female with the "marker" that will hatch later this month).
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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
The Red Dragons Den
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons~ for you are Crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

My 100%ers do not have the markers. I bought them from a reputable breeder and I have my fingers crossed. I do believe the marker trait has some truth.

Randy Remington has been following the marker trait for awhile and writes about it.

I find it really interesting, and really like any new data regarding this.

The normal girl's belly you posted does look like the trait. Alot of people try and pass any black lines by the vent off as the marker. Your girl clearly has the three clear scales inbetween the black stripes on either side.

Also, just because she didnt pop a Pied doesnt totally discount her as being het. Pied, but it does make it a bummer to think about breeding the same pair again?

Could you please post a belly pic of the other girl you spoke of and give some history (if you have it) on her ie; is she related to the other girl? is she CH or wild? do you know her lineage?

I really love this topic and the data you provide might be invaluable and could go a long way in finally substantiating or laying to rest the het. for Pied marker trait theory.

Please keep us posted on the next clutch.

Alan

If it helps you~ this is the other girls belly. I got both of these girls in a 10 lot as WC subadults (700-800 grams) on 10-9-03 from Reptile Haven in Southern California. At the time I got them they were infested with ticks and I beleive they were fresh imports. This female was also bred with Larry (100% het pied without "markers" from RDR) and her 7 eggs should hatch around the end of next week (I may be out of town when they hatch so maybe another week before I can post pics)

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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
The Red Dragons Den
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons~ for you are Crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

Alan,

These 100% pied girls hatched two weeks ago, I took these pictures today. I didn't take any belly shots because I didn't see any significant "markers".

These girls came from a clutch of 5.3, none of the clutch had markers.

The pics are of two of the girls and their father.

If you would like I can send belly pics of all eight.

Thanks, Rich
chesapeake bay ball pythons

Rich,

Thanks, but right now we know 100% het for Pieds have this mark. We also know that normals also have this marker. Where it gets confusings is that some people (I believe) misidentify the markers and say their snakes with the markers turned out to be nomal? This skews the data. With Cheryl's group, we can be pretty sure they are imports, and she bought the male 100% het Pied from RDR, so one would hope that it is a definate het for Pied. If Cheryl were to take a wild caught snake, that just so happened to have the markers and breed it to a know 100% het for Pied male and produce visible Piebalds, I think that would be pretty impressive. Sorta like the missing link when it comes to this het for Pied marker trait.

Thanks,

Alan

~n.p.

I found this one in a pet store a couple years ago. This pet store was out in the sticks (has since closed), and they didnt really carry too many snakes(mostly fish and dog/cat food). This one just happened to be ther one day when I walk in, my guess is a long term pet that was traded in or dropped off? I was hoping it was a she, but ufortunately it turned out to be a he? *sigh*

Notice the smudge by the tail in the third pic, some people have associated this mark with het for Pieds as well?

I bred him the first year 05/06 that I had him, but unfortunately, the female did not ovulate. This year I did not breed him. I have considered getting rid of him, but there is something about him that I like, and that has kept me from pulling the trigger and moving him along...

what temp were you incubating the eggs to get 1.5???????
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Thanks
Chad Ramsey
onetonyj@yahoo.com

Snakes. Period. ALL studies so far, in every species tested, has shown this.

Brad Chambers

i know that, i just like to keep track and watch. Sorry i kind of like datat collection!
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Thanks
Chad Ramsey
onetonyj@yahoo.com

Some people do believe in some het pied markers the truth is some normals have the same markings and some hets don’t have them (like mine) so it is basically not conclusive.

Never buy hets according to those so call makers because the only true maker is the guaranty from a reputable breeder.