Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi
excuse my ignorance ,but what actually is meant buy a colour morph in snakes ?

A color morph is a genetically driven identifiable change to the color. For example in BRB's,

A normal:

A hypomelanistic (recessive trait in BRB's)

and an anery, also a recessive trait in BRB's:

-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Showing the morphs together with normals, my rainbow soup series:

-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

better than the normal and or the hypo. Do you have any pictures of an anery as an adult?
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

here is a link to Robert Seib (Eastern Indigos) website on his anery's and you can see some pics of his male but it has yellow crescents even at one year of age unlike the Sharp anery's but it is all that I know of
Bob
For Frank the Pimp

...
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

ask you what you think about the white-lipped python. I was at a show last weekend and saw one for the first time rather than the classifieds and I was amazed by its beauty in person. I was talking to a guy who seemed pretty honest and asked about it and he told me they get mean when older. Any experience with them or what? What do you know about them like size or temperment? If that snake looked that good I can only imagine a super motley in person or super hypo motley which is now I favorite snake in the whole world and I got to hold a blood python for the first time so that was friggin' awesome too.
Bob

python, they have a yellow and black phase. Yellow looks to be more of a gold color. I have always wanted either one, especially the black one. They do have a reputation for being aggressive. I believe almost all snakes ( unless imported adults ) usually calm down when kept in the captive environment and are exposed to the keepers presence. Once they loose their fear of becoming a potential meal, the aggression usually subsides at the same exact time. Most keepers complain of their unpleasant disposition, they are usually wild caught imports and not captive bred specimens. I have kept agro larger pythons such as the african rock, anaconda, and reticulated python in the past. I have never had the opportunity to acquire one or I would have already. There is a beautiful black one currently in the classifieds, but I have neither the space or funds to procure it. If I had both the space and funds, I would most certainly buy the black one in the classifieds. Agro or not, wouldn't make a difference to me. There beauty would make working with them worthwhile in my opinion. Someday I will get a pair. They are on my "must have" list for certain.
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

LOVE EM!!

>>ask you what you think about the white-lipped python. I was at a show last weekend and saw one for the first time rather than the classifieds and I was amazed by its beauty in person. I was talking to a guy who seemed pretty honest and asked about it and he told me they get mean when older. Any experience with them or what? What do you know about them like size or temperment? If that snake looked that good I can only imagine a super motley in person or super hypo motley which is now I favorite snake in the whole world and I got to hold a blood python for the first time so that was friggin' awesome too.
>>Bob
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photos.xtremecombatsports.com

stunning in person and I must have seen the black phase cuz it looked like a super motley and it was a baby too so I'm assuming cbb but awesome looking
Bob

Bob.. don't ever assume they are CBB. Whitelips come into the US in large numbers from farmbreeders.. many of which have tons of internal issues going on. If you want one.. there are several people that breed them, find one and get the WL directly from them (or be ready to go straight to vet and hope for the best).

On a good note, they tend to be pretty hardy and fairly easy to start.

I think there are actually 3 subspecies of WL - one of them is extremely difficult to breed, but I can't remember which now.

>>stunning in person and I must have seen the black phase cuz it looked like a super motley and it was a baby too so I'm assuming cbb but awesome looking
>>Bob
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photos.xtremecombatsports.com

Sorry.. there are 4 members or WL family..
-D'Albertis' White-lipped Python, Leiopython albertisii
-Leiopython albertisii barkeri
-Brown White-lipped Python, Leiopython albertisii bennetti
-Southern (Black) White-lipped Python, Leiopython hoserae

>>Bob.. don't ever assume they are CBB. Whitelips come into the US in large numbers from farmbreeders.. many of which have tons of internal issues going on. If you want one.. there are several people that breed them, find one and get the WL directly from them (or be ready to go straight to vet and hope for the best).
>>
>>On a good note, they tend to be pretty hardy and fairly easy to start.
>>
>>I think there are actually 3 subspecies of WL - one of them is extremely difficult to breed, but I can't remember which now.
>>
>>
>>>>stunning in person and I must have seen the black phase cuz it looked like a super motley and it was a baby too so I'm assuming cbb but awesome looking
>>>>Bob
>>-----
>>photos.xtremecombatsports.com
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photos.xtremecombatsports.com

I heard this one is the toughest of the white-lips to breed.

A even tougher python to keep & propagate is the Boelen's or Black Python, Morelia boeleni, although it's in a different genera, it also is almost completely black as well, and worth a look. They are the "holy grail" of the Python genera in my opinion.

Check out this webpage!!!!

-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Now.. that is one on the wish list. I will have some of those one day. There are a few cases of breeding them but not many. I think the key is the drastic change in temps from day to night in their native land (from 80 or 85 in the day down to the 40's at night.. ).

>>I heard this one is the toughest of the white-lips to breed.
>>
>>A even tougher python to keep & propagate is the Boelen's or Black Python, Morelia boeleni, although it's in a different genera, it also is almost completely black as well, and worth a look. They are the "holy grail" of the Python genera in my opinion.
>>
>>Check out this webpage!!!!
>>
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>
-----
photos.xtremecombatsports.com

Here is are 2 more for the wishlist Frank..

My pics.. but not my snakes..

>>Now.. that is one on the wish list. I will have some of those one day. There are a few cases of breeding them but not many. I think the key is the drastic change in temps from day to night in their native land (from 80 or 85 in the day down to the 40's at night.. ).
>>
>>>>I heard this one is the toughest of the white-lips to breed.
>>>>
>>>>A even tougher python to keep & propagate is the Boelen's or Black Python, Morelia boeleni, although it's in a different genera, it also is almost completely black as well, and worth a look. They are the "holy grail" of the Python genera in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>>Check out this webpage!!!!
>>>>
>>>>-----
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>
>>-----
>>photos.xtremecombatsports.com
-----
photos.xtremecombatsports.com

those are excellent looking animals, please give some details about them? Type of snakes for starters would be nice. I love both of them, esp, the all black one.
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

They are excellent looking for sure!! The darker animal is a Paupan python.. Apodora papuana. The other is an Australian olive python - Liasis olivaceus

Both those girls are awesome animals!! If you have ?? about either.. just ask. They aren't real common in captivity, but there are a few people working w/ each.

>>those are excellent looking animals, please give some details about them? Type of snakes for starters would be nice. I love both of them, esp, the all black one.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>
-----
photos.xtremecombatsports.com

Thanks Tom,

I actually have heard of both species. I have seen them in books before, but, I just could 't identify them.

I am still learning, lol, I also heard that Ophiophagy ( "snake eating" ) has been documented in adult papuan pythons during their breeding trials? ( I have seen this documentation first hand with pictures of a bloated female ( papuan ) after consuming her court er, she was the same length as the male )

I currently cannot recall where I saw it and or if the female died from such a large meal. ( old age, even though I am kind of young. )

Any data?

Also, I do not think they are commonly bred, if so, it's only by a handful of US breeders.

Do they live in the same "niche" as the boelen's ( high elevations )? If so, they ( papuan python ) may hold the key to their ( boelen's ) reproductive biology. I say may, because I do not know if they co-habitat in the same areas as Boelen's.

Like you said, ( I think it was you ) I believe the key to boelen's reproduction is VERY temperature related, and also radiant (sun) heat, even in cold weather, warms these pythons up.

Thus, utilizing their black coloration ( dark colors attract more heat then light colors ) to properly thermoregulate in a hostile environment ( mountains of Papuan new guinea )

Take a temp gun outside and take some measurements of the ground in direct sunlight, and also some rocks. You will be quite surprised how hot it is in comparison to ambient air temperatures. ( works best in winter time )

So boelen's, most likely utilize "micro-climates" to raise their body temperature to their desired activity temperature. But I am sure they are subjected to core body temperatures that would most likely give other boids respiratory infections. ( temperature cycling, in my opinion, is essential for reproduction, light cycles using direct lighting have been used with some success as well. ( combination of both factors )

My male dumeril is like a kingsnake. He will bite and constrict other snakes. He never bothered my female dumeril. He likes the "smell" of most other snakes, as a food source. I have never allowed him to kill and eat any snakes. But, I have stuck him with other species to see if, in fact, They (dumeril) are Ophiophagus, well let's just say, they had to be carefully pulled apart, both where fine. The female dumeril has no interest in snakes for any reason. So, I am confident that cannibalism in Boa dumerili is on an individual basis, and not a "for sure" type of behavior exhibited by all Dumeril Boas.

Let me paraphrase all that drivel I just posted.

Do you know of any Papuan's being bred in significant numbers ?

If so, by whom?

What part of New Guinea do the Papuans come from ?

Have you heard of any cannibalistic" behavior in papuan's ?
for those who wish to see the def. of Ophiophagy ("snake eating"

-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Tom?? ok.. Fran, here are your answers

Honestly, I have heard alot about papuans being opiophagolical - but can't confirm or deny it based on experience/first hand knowledge. I know they are agressive, even towards each other while in their cage - so it would be possible (certainly not a species to keep together - sort of wham bam and seperate type pairings). I know 2 14' snakes in a cage together, that think each other is dinner, could certainly cause an intense evening trying to seperate em

There aren't many of the snakes in the hobby to start with. Even less people have mature pairs.. so there is not much success w/ breeding. I know there have been successful clutches produced - but don't have numbers.

As for comparing it to the boeleni.. Even though they are both in same island/region, and I am sure some crossover does exist the don't really share habitat. So, I don't think there are many keys/crossovers in the breeding. M. boeleni is found mainly in mid to higher elevations of the rain forrest in dense areas w/ rocky outcrops.. while A. papuana prefers more of a low elevation and islands with varying habitat (usually areas associated w/ river or fresh water sources).

>>Thanks Tom,
>>
>>I actually have heard of both species. I have seen them in books before, but, I just could 't identify them.
>>
>>I am still learning, lol, I also heard that Ophiophagy ( "snake eating" ) has been documented in adult papuan pythons during their breeding trials? ( I have seen this documentation first hand with pictures of a bloated female ( papuan ) after consuming her court er, she was the same length as the male )
>>
>>I currently cannot recall where I saw it and or if the female died from such a large meal. ( old age, even though I am kind of young. )
>>
>>Any data?
>>
>>Also, I do not think they are commonly bred, if so, it's only by a handful of US breeders.
>>
>>Do they live in the same "niche" as the boelen's ( high elevations )? If so, they ( papuan python ) may hold the key to their ( boelen's ) reproductive biology. I say may, because I do not know if they co-habitat in the same areas as Boelen's.
>>
>>Like you said, ( I think it was you ) I believe the key to boelen's reproduction is VERY temperature related, and also radiant (sun) heat, even in cold weather, warms these pythons up.
>>
>>Thus, utilizing their black coloration ( dark colors attract more heat then light colors ) to properly thermoregulate in a hostile environment ( mountains of Papuan new guinea )
>>
>>Take a temp gun outside and take some measurements of the ground in direct sunlight, and also some rocks. You will be quite surprised how hot it is in comparison to ambient air temperatures. ( works best in winter time )
>>
>>So boelen's, most likely utilize "micro-climates" to raise their body temperature to their desired activity temperature. But I am sure they are subjected to core body temperatures that would most likely give other boids respiratory infections. ( temperature cycling, in my opinion, is essential for reproduction, light cycles using direct lighting have been used with some success as well. ( combination of both factors )
>>
>>
>> My male dumeril is like a kingsnake. He will bite and constrict other snakes. He never bothered my female dumeril. He likes the "smell" of most other snakes, as a food source. I have never allowed him to kill and eat any snakes. But, I have stuck him with other species to see if, in fact, They (dumeril) are Ophiophagus, well let's just say, they had to be carefully pulled apart, both where fine. The female dumeril has no interest in snakes for any reason. So, I am confident that cannibalism in Boa dumerili is on an individual basis, and not a "for sure" type of behavior exhibited by all Dumeril Boas.
>>
>>Let me paraphrase all that drivel I just posted.
>>
>>Do you know of any Papuan's being bred in significant numbers ?
>>
>>If so, by whom?
>>
>>What part of New Guinea do the Papuans come from ?
>>
>>Have you heard of any cannibalistic" behavior in papuan's ?
>>for those who wish to see the def. of Ophiophagy ("snake eating"
>>
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>
-----
photos.xtremecombatsports.com

for answering, lotsa brain gas in my mind
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

No problem Frank.. it actually happens a lot.. it doesn't bother me at all.. just thought I would cease the opportunity and rib you a bit about it.

>>for answering, lotsa brain gas in my mind
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>
-----
photos.xtremecombatsports.com

Thanks Tim,

I did not think there where too many in the hobby and or being bred. Also makes since they (boelen's) come from different parts of new guinea, I knew boelen's where closely tied to mid/high elevations, was not sure about Papuans. The pic I saw of the female that consumed it's cage mate was UNREAL, they where at least 10-12 foot snakes, I was convinced that the female either would regurge or die from such a meal, it's possible for them to digest something that large under ideal environmental conditions, but I would think under most circumstances the animal would either regurge or die. It wouldn't be the first time a snake has died from consuming such a large meal. Also, I only remember seeing one ( papuan ) available in the last year or so.
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

True on the death thing.. but a lot of snake eaters can eat a meal that is close to their own size.. so who knows.

There have 3 on KS in the past year or so that I saw.. and occassionally some FB animals come in, but they are usually scooped up before they ever hit KS.

>>Thanks Tim,
>>
>>I did not think there where too many in the hobby and or being bred. Also makes since they (boelen's) come from different parts of new guinea, I knew boelen's where closely tied to mid/high elevations, was not sure about Papuans. The pic I saw of the female that consumed it's cage mate was UNREAL, they where at least 10-12 foot snakes, I was convinced that the female either would regurge or die from such a meal, it's possible for them to digest something that large under ideal environmental conditions, but I would think under most circumstances the animal would either regurge or die. It wouldn't be the first time a snake has died from consuming such a large meal. Also, I only remember seeing one ( papuan ) available in the last year or so.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>
-----
photos.xtremecombatsports.com

pardon my ignorance, but does that abbreviation mean, Farm Bred?
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

yeah.. Farm Bred..

>>pardon my ignorance, but does that abbreviation mean, Farm Bred?
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>
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photos.xtremecombatsports.com

FB Ball Pythons that come into this country!!

Even though farm bred, that type of numerage ( is that even a word ? lol ) must have some impact on wild populations. Even if the female snakes are field collected and then re-released afterwards. Many, many, tens of thousands come into this country annually. Sometimes as cheap as a few dollars each. I wonder if any impact studies are being done over in Africa to substantiate such a large cull on wild populations.

Just wondering Aloud.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Frank,
...There was a research project a couple years ago about the pressure of collecting on Ball Python population. Their conclusion was that the pressure did not have much impact on the wild populations. It does seem odd that they would come to that conclusion based on the large numbers involved. AFAIK the BP export business is still the same with gravid females being captured and held until they lay their eggs and then being released back into sites where they had been collected.
Jeff

>>FB Ball Pythons that come into this country!!
>>
>>Even though farm bred, that type of numerage ( is that even a word ? lol ) must have some impact on wild populations. Even if the female snakes are field collected and then re-released afterwards. Many, many, tens of thousands come into this country annually. Sometimes as cheap as a few dollars each. I wonder if any impact studies are being done over in Africa to substantiate such a large cull on wild populations.
>>
>>Just wondering Aloud.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>

I thought was pretty well buried in a thread that's in no way related to the original post. Thanks for the answer. Well it is good to see they did some type of "impact study". I feel as you do on the subject. To be honest, I can not really see how it does not have a significant impact on the future breeding populations of this species, it probably is related to the possible life expectancy of adult snakes. So current adult populations will exist till these breeders eventually die and can no longer contribute to the gene pool. But removing that many probable futuristic breeder's may impact the species at a futuristic time. Did that make sense and come out right? I think you understand what I mean.

Glad to see you thoroughly read the forum!!!
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Frank,
..I read every post here. You find some good stuff buried down in the older threads sometimes.
Jeff

>>I thought was pretty well buried in a thread that's in no way related to the original post. Thanks for the answer. Well it is good to see they did some type of "impact study". I feel as you do on the subject. To be honest, I can not really see how it does not have a significant impact on the future breeding populations of this species, it probably is related to the possible life expectancy of adult snakes. So current adult populations will exist till these breeders eventually die and can no longer contribute to the gene pool. But removing that many probable futuristic breeder's may impact the species at a futuristic time. Did that make sense and come out right? I think you understand what I mean.
>>
>>Glad to see you thoroughly read the forum!!!
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>

I agree w/ you Jeff.. I have even been back through the archives from before my time.. there are some great threads back there w/ lots of good information..

>>Frank,
>>..I read every post here. You find some good stuff buried down in the older threads sometimes.
>>Jeff
>>
>>>>I thought was pretty well buried in a thread that's in no way related to the original post. Thanks for the answer. Well it is good to see they did some type of "impact study". I feel as you do on the subject. To be honest, I can not really see how it does not have a significant impact on the future breeding populations of this species, it probably is related to the possible life expectancy of adult snakes. So current adult populations will exist till these breeders eventually die and can no longer contribute to the gene pool. But removing that many probable futuristic breeder's may impact the species at a futuristic time. Did that make sense and come out right? I think you understand what I mean.
>>>>
>>>>Glad to see you thoroughly read the forum!!!
>>>>-----
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Frank Roberts
>>>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>>>
-----
photos.xtremecombatsports.com

to contribute.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>to contribute.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>21.29 BRB
>>19.19 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

That's the closest I've got, I'll keep posting up pics as she grows!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

..
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

do you know how many days POS your bci's are at or what? Best of luck though and my guess is either day 108 or 113-so if I win don't forget lol
Bob

Well, if I have it right, one is at 113, another at 112....ugh!!! I hate the waiting part.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

early and premature but when they are ready they will definately let you know. Have they been roaming around the cage or what? Just trying to learn what they do right before they give birth and good luck sleeping tonight too haha lol.
Bob

Yeah and has me second guessing, are they gravid? Am I looking at the right shed? Am I an idiot for stressing (well DUH yeah)?

One has refused all meals but is not that large diameter. She's been hanging out mostly on the warm side the while time. The other has been taking meals and is looking a lot bigger. She has been moving about i little lately...wishful thinking...maybe!!! Will have to wait and wait and wait and see!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

many thanks
appreciate your very helpfull response

its appears very simalar to the budgies we used to bred ,but i just wanted to double check