Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I hear alot of people say that you should keep the humidity in your Ball Pythons cage at 60%, 65% or even 70% on a regular basis.

I think this may be too high? I keep my cages at 40% to 50% and that seems fine. Occasionally I wet them down good, where the humidity may go as high as even 80%-plus, but only for a few days, and I then let it dry out for some time afterwards.

I believe higher humidity has the potential to generate bacteria, like a big petri dish, in your tubs, cage, aquarium and may be responsible for some of the RI's people have.

I stumbled across this picture of a ball python in the wild on a message board and I think it clearly shows conditions that are really pretty dry?

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jyohe is right, I agree....

Stop the madness!
Shut Africa DOWN!!!!
NO more Africa....NO more Africa.....NO more Africa.....!!!
Buy locally.......

then again, in the wild, ball pythons will take refuge from the hot dry conditions by hiding in borrows made by other animals. Which pretty much looks like what that ball in the picture is doing.

Having some dry days isn't bad, but a moist hide or regular misting during shed cycle or having a bowl in the tank large enough for your ball to soak, is more than enough for most situations. I do't mist my ball python cages regularly, but I do when I see they are in shed. The only time I see shed problems is when I miss the 'blue' stage and thus, don't mist enough and the shed comes off in chunks. When I see a bad shed, I put in a damp towel or moist hide to get the rest of the shed off.

Too much humidity and not enough ventilation does cause bacteria and mold to grow, which produces an unhealthy environment for ball pythons which can lead to URI, scale rot and other problems.
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PHLdyPayne

It looks to me like this snake is half dug up by some local, for the price of probably 15cents American for doing the job?

She was most likely minding her own business in her little secure hide, when some moron with a pick and shovel came along.... If shes gravid, or happens to be sitting on a clutch of eggs all the better to supply the rich American's insatiable appetite for anything that can make them lots of money, or is exotic or beautiful.
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jyohe is right, I agree....

Stop the madness!
Shut Africa DOWN!!!!
NO more Africa....NO more Africa.....NO more Africa.....!!!
Buy locally.......

I agree that africa should be shut down also to harvesting what appears to be normal balls only, I think that the rare morph that pops up in the wild should be allowed to exported only due to the fact that it chances of living maybe a great deal less due to the fact that it is a mutation. Only these wild morphs should be exported to keep the diversity of mutations alive and wild, breeder/hobbysit breed enough normals and hets to sustain this hobby for many years to come it will actually help the buisness of breeding these beautiful animals buy increasing the price if this was done and the animals would also benefit , if you pay for somethng cheaply you tend to treat it that way, unfortunatley people forget these are living animals and not cheap toys , BAN ALL NORMAL COLLECTING IN AFRICA , THATS WHAT SAY.

I agree, let them export very unique animals only. Trouble is, the gravid famales and unhatched eggs (where they dont know whats inside)are too big of a lure to pass up on I guess?

Also, it seems like many of the morphs that have been pulled out of Africa in recent years have been variations of the same mutation. Thats why I think you see people selling African imports straight away and not even trying and breed them themselves. The old "Start your own line" ads. They know the snake is really just another variation of an existing mutation.

What are the chances of something as unique as a Piebald every being found again? Not too good. Man has undone, in 10 to 20 years what took nature 10 or 20 thousand to create.

Man would have to leave the wild populations alone for 10 or 20 thousand years for nature to have a chance reintroduce new genetic variations.

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jyohe is right, I agree....

Stop the madness!
Shut Africa DOWN!!!!
NO more Africa....NO more Africa.....NO more Africa.....!!!
Buy locally.......

A well managed harvest does not necessarily impact the numbers of individuals in the wild. I have no idea what the situation is in much of the BPs range, but the very fact that we have CITES in effect would tell me that these animals are not being overharvested. If the wild populationms were declining exportation would automatically be restricted. Not saying I disagree with your stance, just that the ecological reasons sited (may, or) may not be a real issue...

An example of what I'm talking about for a well known US species: Back when the American Alligator was listed as endangered, studies showed that something like 50% of a clutch of eggs could be removed from wild nests WITHOUT having ANY effect on the wild population. By removing so many eggs, juvenile mortality went way down, and populations stayed just the same as if the eggs weren't harvested.

Just playing devils advocate.

Now, don't get me wrong...there are lots of good reasons to buy captive bred american...

You have to rember people this is AFRICA , a place were curruption run rampant a place where explotation is part of its history , a place where poverty and natural resources run hand and hand so things are greatly overlooked in Africa please dont beleive ever belive that this beautiful place with a huge diversity of wildlife will sustain the huge appetite for these beautiful snakes that we all want nature has it limits and it will collapse evetually all you have to do is look at history , stop exporting normals and only export the morphs when they pop up we should be pushing for this not going against it , there are enough of us breeding these beautiful animals right here in the US to sustain the appetite , this will also keep those who now get these animals dirt cheap and not taking care of them from wanting them ,m the days of the ball python being a pratice snake in the hobby is now over let us start the movement of banning normal expotation only this will only improve things all around .

Studies of royal python populations indicate that less than 10% of those that hatch survive their first year. A great many of the eggs harvested as well as most of the babies exported - would in fact be dead if they weren't harvested and exported. The exportation of these animals is making very little impact on their population and is aiding the economy of the region. If anything by removing so many of these animals from the wild population we are creating less competition for basic needs.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

so yea my humidity is fine
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Addicted
Carpet Freak
Just alittle some-in some-in
Post pictures- ITS THE LAW

No offense, but thats kind of a convoluted way of looking at things.

The snakes that are left, still have they same number of predators chasing a fewer number of baby snakes.

The baby snakes that are left will not encounter a large bird, or monitor that is full from having just ate 5 baby snakes from the clutch that hatched 300 yards away, that clutch will have been harvested, the large bird or monitor will do his best to eat every baby that wasn't shipped off to support the rapacious demands of the pet and morph trade in the United States and elsewhere.

By your rationale, why not let the pet trade harvesters and snake morph purveyors remove even more snakes, because the ones that are left will do even better...

I bet the people who hunted the American Bison used similar euphemisms when they applied their trade as well.

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jyohe is right, I agree....

Stop the madness!
Shut Africa DOWN!!!!
NO more Africa....NO more Africa.....NO more Africa.....!!!
Buy locally.......

buffalo were killed and left to rot by the American government in order to make the native peoples starve to death and not fight the whites.....or to just die and go away.....

......waste......the human idea.........

.......
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Stop the madness!
Shut Africa DOWN!!!!
NO more Africa....NO more Africa.....NO more Africa.....!!!
Buy locally.......

I agree with you a great deal STOP THE MADDNESS ENOUGH ANIMLAS HAVE ARRIVED HERE JUST TO DIE FOR THE SAKE OF AQUIRING THE RARE MORPH.

No offense taken - the studies indicate that there are the same number of balls per acre in areas where balls are considered sacred and trapping not allowed as there are in areas where trapping is welcomed and the "raping" occurs. What is exported is not hurting the populations. Balls actually have very few natural predators - mainly cobras.

Anyway this is pretty much one of those arguments that just goes around in circles - and is based primarily on how opinion. I've learned the bet way to deal with it is to present the facts and bow out - so I'll bow out now.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

WHY BUY WILD WHEN YOU CAN BUY A HEALTHY CB NORMAL FOR A GOOD BREEDER LOCALY , THAT WAY YOU HELP THE BALLS , HAVE GOOD HEALTHY BALL, AND YOU HELP SOMEONE MAINTAIN A DECENT LIVING RIGHT HERE IN THE GOOD OLD USA, ITS A KNOW BRAINER THE ONLY REAL REASON WHY PEOPLE BUY BALL FROM AFRICA IN HUGE CHEAP NUMBERS IS THAT THEY HOPE TO AQUIRE A RARE MORPH OR HET THAT KNOW ONE HAS LETS BE HONEST AND CUT THE CRAP....!

Fair enough

Great post its the same selfishness that wiped many of animals off this earth, the buffalos once roamed the plains in the millions and the eagles once soared the skys in thousands. People want things now and this is the problem buy captive bred normals , this will only benefit the hobby and buisness growth of ball pythons , the only animals that should be exported are the very rare wild morphs which will proably not survive in the wild anyway due to their unableness not to blend in due to the visuals colors , these are the only wild animals that we are actually helping by harvesting them from the wild , BAN THE EXPORTATION AND IMPORTATION OF WILD NORMALS.

That sounds great, but if they stop collecting normals they will stop collecting everything. Do you really think the africans will hatch out/collect a couple hundred thousand snakes and just keep the very few morphs that they hatch out/collect? There would be no way for them to make a profit like that.
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John Vandegrift

Here in the USA I bet 10% or less survive also.......balls are a cheap disposable snake to own...not a pet.......just a wow pet...or look what I can do in most cases....little kids and dumb cheap a$$ people get wild imported babies due to the $10 or so price range.........yea......some go to good smart caring homes.........but out of 500,000 a year and more......how many are still alive?........males are picked through and popped till their penes probably are broken......and at times dumped out at $2 each to get rid of them........some are almost dead by then.......

........IF Africa is shut down....it is shut down......not closed for normals but open for morphs and cool stuff.......

shutting Africa will allow the US snake breeder to actually be able to sell some of the US born animals.......and make something out of them........

........@ $30 for a captive ball........that ate $30 in food so far..........what is the profit?........

look at pastels........

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Stop the madness!
Shut Africa DOWN!!!!
NO more Africa....NO more Africa.....NO more Africa.....!!!
Buy locally.......

Jeff - you are actually correct - most reptiles are either dead, lost, given away or given up before a year (studies done in pet trade only).

But do you really think that closing Africa is going to solve where your animals go - who in the US is breeding normals on purpose - they are generally left overs from morph projects - if you can't find homes for all your animals you need to cut back on the breeding - IMO.

Want more money - stop giving all those hets away for next to nothing! LOL
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Tosha
JET Pythons

YOU JUST PROVED ARE POINT WHO IS BREEDING NORMALS ,HELLO WAKEUP YOU ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION,IF IMPORTATION OF NORMALS STOP WE ALL WILL BE BREEDING THEM , I HAPPEN TO LIKE NORMALS , I HAVE 0.7 OF THEM.

First of all yelling on the internet is rude. Take your cap locks off.

Second - no one will ever breed normals in mass because there is no profit in it. Petstores aren't going to start paying joe nobody or even bob somebody $50 for his normal baby ball pythons if they can't make a 200% profit - people aren't going to pay $100-$200 for a normal when they can get a morph for that. Breeders aren't going to spend that much time and money into breeding normals for the pet trade when they aren't worth anything.

Theres no money to be made in normals - economics is why no one breeds them - closing Africa isn't going to change that.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion - but that is all it is.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

You are not really paying attention to detail or what I and others have posted common since will prevail though you just need for it to kick in now , again if there was a ban on all normals out of Africa than quite naturallu the supply of them would be reduced therefore increasing the demand for cb normal balls here therefore the price would go up but not at some ridiclous price that you quoted in your post due to the fact that their are a great deal of people out there who probaly have more normals or hets in their collections due to the high price of morphs. We need to only allow rare morphs to be exported from africa and ban the normals again I will be pushing for a bill to get this going its very horrfic to see 100 of thousands of animals just be wasted away for know reason.

What makes you think that there will be any demand for cbb normals?

You can buy morphs now in the $100 range and more falling into that category every year. The only demand for normals is for cheap cheap cheap or aberrants - both of which primarily come from Africa.

Adult normal breeder females are being dumped for next to nothing when just last year they ran $700-1K - normal cbb babies are free with purchase. Pet stores won't pay much for babies cause they have to put a huge margin on them - most of the time they like to trade for a bag of dog food or feeders. Online people still have to include shipping which means they charge $20 for their animal.

If you had a choice between buying $100 normal or $100 morph which would you buy? If you are selling which would you rather sell - $20 normals or $100 morphs? Business really is that simple. It is what it is - prices aren't going up.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

pet shops get normals for $8 to $15.......at times $35 cause they are dumb and don't have connections.......or want a guarentee for eating.......

normals are made here....alot....look at this message board.......people all happy as bird crap to get their forst breeding and egg....abnd alot are normals.....

normals are made alot from co-dom breedings..yes..and we would like to sell them at least......I got offered $8 for normals at 400 grams.......yea..ok.......

shut down Africa would mean if someone wanted normals OR morphs they would get it here...and MORE mprphs would be sold and wanted too......pastel males MAY get up t $100 again......LOL

cobras eat balls.......what about marabou storks and cranes and all the other birds?..raptors.......honey badgers and meerkats? jackals........caracals(spell)......wild cats (our house cats...same thing).......etc etc.......they are hungry.....empty termite mounds........

what about termites?........wouldn't it be sad if Africa got infected with mold and killed everyone due to no termites and wood actually rotting instead of being eaten by termites......(hhmm.,,that would be ok).....poor things got a hole in their homes all the time.....and what about all the stuff that eats them........?

give away hets?.........who buys them?.......or any balls?...I wholesaled to Ian..he can sell anything.......

wait till this year.........

I'm just greedy and want to be able to sell something........

couldn't even get an intrest in a 5 foot huge female ball at a show in Pa........noone wants balls.......LOL

.........aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...........
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Stop the madness!
Shut Africa DOWN!!!!
NO more Africa....NO more Africa.....NO more Africa.....!!!
Buy locally.......

my friend is right...he wants to breed more king cobras so he can feed all the baby balls to them and not have to deal with the public.........

........the local "world's largest pet shop" here near me used to give me $30 for my normals......then sell them for $89 with a guarentee.......they sold fast.....the other balls they would sell at sale for $19.99...NO guarentee to eat at all........as is..........

........now the new reptile buyer for the store goes all with wild.........pity............for the buyers.........

........I told her she will be buying pastels this year....they are that cheap.........

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Buy Pa born and bred snakes........

They just taste better.......

NO artificial flavor added.......

No MSG
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YEAH,YEAH,YEAH,YEAH ,YEAH , SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, I PLAN ON GOING TO MY ELECTED OFFICIALS AND PUSHING FOR THE NORMAL BAN , I TAKE IT VERY SERIOUSLY , I WILL PUSH FOR A BILL THAT ONLY ALLOWS FOR THE EXPORTATION OF MORPHS, I KNOW THIS WILL UPSET ALOT OF YOU BUT IT ALL ABOUT THE ANIMALS , AND THEIR ARE ENOUGH OF US IN THE HOBBY BUISNESS TO BREED ENOUGH CB TO SUSTAIN THE HOBBY , I WILL START THIS CAMPAIGN IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS AFRICA HAS BEEN RAPED ENOUGH.

I think to say that taking these animals from thier natural enviroment actually helps them is ridiculs thats how many of are animals have gone extinct,people wake up there are plenty of animals bred in captivity to sustain the demand and if there isnt all this does is give us breeder hobbyist more motivation to breed more of these beautiful animals. Ban all normal exports from Africa.

The ability of wild Ball Python populations to sustain the systematic hunting down and havesting in such very large numbers is a specious argument to begin with. There really shouldnt be such a huge demand for normals and there really probably isnt at this point, hence the ads for 5,000 @ $2.00 you see. Five thousand normals thrown away, is a small price (for some)to pay for a new line with your name on it and all the money that goes along with it.

How many normals are imported to the USA annually? Tens of thousands? Over a hundred - two hundred thousand? These snakes can live 30-40 plus years when cared for correctly. Doesnt it make you wonder where they all go?

If you take a look at what percentage of the 300 million people in the USA own snakes it makes it all to clear what the ugly truth is.

Lets say its 5% (personally, I think 5% is probably way too high and it is actually a lot less, but lets say 5%), or 15 million people own a snake.

Of these 15 million snake owners, lets say 20% of these, or 3 million people own Ball Pythons. This number is also probably way too high, but I would say its fair because some people own more than one snake. Although, the reality is, other than the people who go to this web-site, very-very few people own more than one snake.

This means there are approximately 3 million Ball Python owners in the United States today.

Now, with importation quantities at the rates they are, and have been for the last decade or two, combined with all the snakes being bred every year in addition to the imported ones, how long do you think it takes to provide 3 million snakes to the population? Once this has been done, where do all the additional snakes go?

There should be no real need and it really cant be justified, for this many new snakes to be taken from Africa every year.

There are no predators in captivity, you have medicines and veterinary care available, in addition to readily available food. Other than a small quantity of snakes that one would expect to have died from natural causes, where are all the snakes that are being imported every year going to? If you think about it, there is no good reason not to expect that a majority of all the snakes imported for the last 20 years shouldnt still be alive? But lets face it, that CAN'T be true...

idiots buy balls cause they are $15.......and don't get 16 foot.(they already got the retic and burm......duh)....you think they take them to a vet?.........

.......people suck........

.......haven't we had enough of this thread yet?........LOL
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Stop the madness!
Shut Africa DOWN!!!!
NO more Africa....NO more Africa.....NO more Africa.....!!!
Buy locally.......

I think you should do a little research on wild BP numbers. With the increase in agriculture ball python numbers are higher than ever. BP's do very well in agricultural areas. Agriculture = more BP habitat and more rodents for them to eat. Which means more BP's.
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John Vandegrift

This is true but still has nothing to do with the topic as a whole.

Um wasn't the "topic as a whole" asking about humidity levels?
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John Vandegrift

Funny how people get sidetracked, ain't it?

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

Captive balls do wonderfully well at 40%RH, except during shedding...you get in trouble when you try to raise the humidty unnecessarily high...same thing goes for bloods too. Silly humans....

My favorite is when someone regularly "bathes" thier BP and reccomends doing the same...LOL...

I agree I have been to africa and its not at all tropical like a rainforest it does have periods of high humidity during the rain season but this is quite rare , the savannah plains where these balls come from can be very arid so people who normaly recommend soaking these beautiful animals are quite wrong I beleieve, I think what happens in nature is once the balls realize that they are about to shed they seek out moist areas such as rodent holes termite mounds and etc, these are the places where they normally hole up anyway and there usually places where the humidity is much higher than outside air.

I was just going to ask about this.

Do you use tubs?

For tubs, how many holes & what size do you suggest drilling?

I think I need to go back & add more holes around the sides by my water bowl. I see mold by or under the dish sometimes & was just about to try & fix this issue. All my snakes are healthy though, so no worries.

When I had tanks, my humidity was around 20% & no matter how much I misted, I had a hard time keeping it at 50%.

Now with my tubs, it is around 70-80% at all times & that is without misting or doing anything. Makes for fabulous sheds though! I have had so many perfect sheds, that I started saving them in a box, lol.

Everything I have read, in Numerous web-site, say Humidity should be betwen 50% - 60% (70% when in shed).
Any time my humidity falls below 50% either of my BPs go nuts around the tank...
Crawling around like they are training for the olympics...
When it is too high (above 70%) they tend to "reach for the top" like looking for better air.
I find my BPs do best at the 50%-60% range and advise others to do so as well.
That pic shows the ground looking a lil dry... but is also dug down quite far and you can't see what is Under the snake.
Think about it... where do we get water from (and don't say a water tap - lol).
We dig Under ground... So it would be more moist under that dry soil pictured.