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MUTTS ARE B A D

Herpo Jun 09, 2007 06:59 PM

A young herper I know recently bought a pair of "alterna" and was very proud of them. He sent me photos of them today which I feel I must share. Anyone with a bit of alterna experience will see at least four characteristics which are NOT alterna characteristics.

I have always been, and will always be, against creating mutts. If you want to do it, then do it for your own interest but DO NOT let them hit the market. Cut off their heads, freeze them, or keep them until they die of old age, but DO NOT market them, please. Hear that, Mr. Osborne?

Replies (15)

Herpo Jun 09, 2007 07:01 PM

belly shot

MikeRusso Jun 09, 2007 07:47 PM

I hope they were not sold as straight alterna..

Herpo Jun 09, 2007 08:18 PM

Yes, they were sold as alterna.
JH

bobassetto Jun 10, 2007 07:31 AM

yo.....tell us how you really feel.....but if there were no market no one would buy them...john, i feel that is a place for snakes like generics, which to me are similar in purpose, you need to add more names to that list...perhaps there should be a buyer beware list of breeders??? .......george died yesterday

dangerdan Jun 10, 2007 09:42 AM

Do they have some greeri or ruthven's in them? What does everyone think?

Dan

brhaco Jun 10, 2007 09:59 AM

no post.

MikeRusso Jun 10, 2007 10:07 AM

I was thinking the same.. Thayeri Crosses..

I don't crossbreed... But, I am not against others doing it. Although, i do think the animals should be marketed as such.

~ Mike

Erik - NM Jun 10, 2007 01:53 PM

snakes I've seen was an alterna x pyro. It was like $80 at a San Antonio herp show. I should've bought it.

atrox182 Jun 10, 2007 03:23 PM

Erik, can you give me some info on what license i would need to collect for personal use ( no commercial collecting ) or to photograph reptiles in New Mexico? Thanks Clark

aspidites Jun 13, 2007 10:19 AM

John,
Can you explain exactly why you feel it is bad to create hybrids? No short answer either please as I want to be able to attack you on all of the points you make. ;>
Glenn

swwit Jun 14, 2007 08:18 AM

Glenn, ask John what breed of dog he has. LOL Sorry John.
-----
Steve W.

Herpo Jun 14, 2007 12:03 PM

Glenn:
I posted my reasons in the hybrid forum but apparently that forum is for the appreciation of hybrids only, not for criticism. The post was deleted.This thread has gone on long enough and I don't want to turn it into a debate on ethics and purity. My original post was to show how they are hitting the market and being marketed as pure strain. Let's face it, most pet shops are not above making up names for things. One of the first snakes I ever bought was sold to me as a south american brown something or other. It turned out to be a brown water snake, Natrix taxispilota.

What will happen if someone actually hatches out an albino alterna? Will he be believed or will it ba assumed to be a 4th or 5th genreation outbreeding from the Osborne ruthveni crosses? Will a potentially valuable snake be rendered worthless? will its offspring be mated to the existing mixed blood albinos?

Basically, when I buy a snake I want to know that it is pure, that it hasn't been crossed to something similar. I don't really have a problem with hybrids. I can understand how they can be fun to make. Some of the 4-5 way crosses that Retes created 30 years abo were neat looking animals. HOWEVER, I would hate to think of them getting into the wild or even into pet shops where they will be mis-represented.

JH

aspidites Jun 14, 2007 04:36 PM

John,

**This thread has gone on long enough and I don't want to turn it into a debate on ethics and purity. **

I'm sure you could debate about this, but it is a little convenient that apparently you are spent on this topic after only a few days and a few posts. By the way, what debate did you intend in the first place if it is not on ethics or purity?

**My original post was to show how they are hitting the market and being marketed as pure strain. Let's face it, most pet shops are not above making up names for things. One of the first snakes I ever bought was sold to me as a south american brown something or other. It turned out to be a brown water snake, Natrix taxispilota. **

Yes, this is nothing new. I have seen MY OWN hybrids that I have produced being marketed incorrectly by other people. But, isn't this about personal responsibility? What can I do about that. If people really cared about it then they wouldn't patronize that store, and they would go out of business, or start being honest, right? If you bought a misrepresented snake, that mistake is really on you for not doing the research into either 1)what you really were buying or 2) the reputation of the store.

**What will happen if someone actually hatches out an albino alterna? Will he be believed or will it ba assumed to be a 4th or 5th genreation outbreeding from the Osborne ruthveni crosses? Will a potentially valuable snake be rendered worthless? will its offspring be mated to the existing mixed blood albinos? **

I agree, but the damage is done. Hopefully when this happens, DNA technology will be such that we can test to see what bloodlines are present.

**Basically, when I buy a snake I want to know that it is pure, that it hasn't been crossed to something similar. **

Exactly, then why did you buy that first snake. I feel the same way, that is why when I buy something, I buy from someone I trust, or I make SURE of what I'm getting - OR I DON'T GET IT.

**I don't really have a problem with hybrids. I can understand how they can be fun to make. Some of the 4-5 way crosses that Retes created 30 years abo were neat looking animals. **

This is not the impression you gave. In fact, the title of the post is "mutts are bad." Am I to understand from that title that you enjoy hybrids?

**HOWEVER, I would hate to think of them getting into the wild or even into pet shops where they will be mis-represented. **

I feel the same way. However, what if I bred a Hueco alterna to a Bracketville alterna and released them in Iraan? Would that be more of a sin than if I released a king/corn in South TX? Which animal would have more of a chance to survive in the wild? If the release or 'escape' of captive bred animals is your true concern, then you should be afraid of it across the board and not simply as a convenient argument against hybrids.

Glenn

Herptophile Jun 15, 2007 08:38 AM

John did not purchase the animals, a mutual friend of ours did who happens to be 'new' to the alterna thing, and is quite young, he was crest-fallen to find that they where not Alterna at all but something else completely. I think John was a little upset over this teenage newbie getting screwed, and then watching his reaction to John haveing to break the news to him about there mixed genetics.

Eric
-----
To you im just the crazy snake guy, but to some I'm a 'Herp'.

aspidites Jun 16, 2007 02:32 PM

I never assumed John bought these animals. I was referring to his statement that the first snake he bought from a pet store was misrepresented.
GLENN

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