Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i have a pair of 66% posible het for blood produced by tom burke. the female just dropped 11 babies (first litter) but they don't have that deep red that i was hoping for. their saddles and bellies are a faint red but overall color is not. if one or both were not hets what does that classify the babies as? do they gain color with age? need to know so i can label them properly for sale. would aprreciate any advise from anyone!

thx, mark in calif.

If she had popped out blood boas, you would not be asking if they were or were not bloods. I'm guessing you do not have bloods, but pics would help. Also, if all 11 babies look the same, it would be 1 in a 1,000,000 that you produced an all blood litter of 11 babies from a het x het breeding. One of the parents may not be het, or thet both may not be hets. It is also possible that you just hit extremely horrible odds, and they are hets and did not produce any bloods, but that is highly unlikely. So assuming one or neither of the parents is het for blood, I personally would sell the babies as normals at normal prices. I would however, let the buyers know that there is a slim chance the babies are het. blood in case they breed them in the future. If one parent is het, the babies are 50% het bloods. If neither is a het, then there is no chance. You do not know from your breeding if either is het or not though. The babies should grow up to look similar to your adults.

Above are just the facts. They are not meant to seem smart or rash. Feel free to charge a little more for your babies if you desire. They may be smokin' normals, but without pics I don't know. You could also charge a little more because there is a chance they are het. blood. Good luck with the babies and congrats.

Phil Goss

that's 2 pairs from that litter with no Bloods...maybe my odds are getting better each day ;O)~
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Chris & Alliey
www.bloodyleopard.com
E-mail Us

Breeding hets can be thrilling or discouraging. This year I had six eggs from a het to het axanthic ball python pair, none of the hatchlings were axanthic. I would have been suspicious, but last year the same pair did produce axanthics, so I know they really are hets, I just got beaten by the odds. A year or so ago a person was posting about a het albino female that was bred by an albino male and no albinos were produced. The breeder was pissed, and pretty much said the the het female couldn't have been a het. The person (Tracy Barker) who'd bred the female and sold it to him respond that it was a het, no ifs ands or buts, there was no question that it was a het. Yes, she understood his doubts, and to get only hets from such a breeding was hard to believe. She went on to say the odds of it happening were the same as getting all albinos. Would he have complained about that? Would he have said it wasn't possible to get all ablinos from that pairing, that something else must be going on?
I realize I'm not addressing your situation directly, just the question of breeding hets. There could be something up with the snakes, an honest mistake (or not so honest) by the person who sold them too you. But it is possible they are both hets and you only got normal phenotypes, which really sucks for you. Still, if you breed them next year and get 3/4 blood boas I know you won't be complaining then. Hope this makes sense, and it does work out next year.

I got a pr from TOM .He wuldn't screw anyone.He doesn't need too.
I hope mine prove out I got them 3 years ago I hope next season they go.Problem is poss.hets doesn't meen i will get bloods thats why i got 100% hets fro him in 2006.Any way Keep the faith breed one of the sons to her see what happens good luck.
Mike

I trust the Burkes 100% I was able to see photos of the litter in goo, and easily was able to pick out my pair....

Also, I know it sounds this way, but I in no way take any joy from you guys not producing Bloods (yet) from your pairings, I just know somewhere along the line it means everyone elses odds are increasing ;O)~

These photos are probably 8-10 months old now.
Deep dark and ugly here...he is actually very red for a poss het

Not so deep dark and ugly

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Chris & Alliey
www.bloodyleopard.com
E-mail Us

I would say the top snake is a het, the bottom one not sure, does it have a striped tail?

hi mike, thx for the reply on my bloods. i hope i didn't give people the wrong impression of my question. let me just say that i took a chance knowing that i may not get bloods and for the price i payed it was well worth it. in no way am i saying that tom burke sold something other than what he claimed it to be. i don't even know him and mabe some day i'll have the pleasure of meeting him. i have been breeding boas for around nine years and am learning something every day. it's my calling! this is the first time i have used this forum and love every bit of it and all the kind advice that other breeders have thrown my way.

thanks again mike, hope to talk with you again.

mark yeakle calif.

Ney Mark
I just wanted to reasure you Tom is one of the few honest guys out there.Didn't mean that you were accusing anything.The thory on stripe on tail is something I just read from miami exotics very cool theory.But could this theory mean it is from one of the orginal females that the original male blood was bred to.Or did that original male have a striped tail?I will have to look up the pic of the original male.Ron brought in.
Talk too you soon
Mike

Odds are at least one is not a het. I know it's "possible" to not get any bloods from a het x het breeding but very low odds. So, if we assume at least one is not het, Then I'd call the babies one of two things:

33% hets (1/2 of 66%) meaning one parent still is a possible het and the babies would be half of that percentsge. IMO Not a good idea.

OR,

Simply call them possible hets with no percentage associated and indicate they came from a pair of 66% unproven het parents.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

as follows:

For the two 66% possible het parents, if we knew nothing about their offspring, the probability of both being het blood is:
(2/3)*(2/3) = 4/9 = 44.4%

The probability of only one of them being het blood is:
(2/3 * 1/3)+(1/3 * 2/3) = 4/9 = 44.4%

The probability of neither being het blood is:
(1/3)*(1/3) = 1/9 = 11.1%

Now if we consider your litter, there were 11 offspring, all normal phenotype (no bloods). The probability of this occuring is:
1-(0.75^11) = 0.042 = 4.2%

What does this mean? Based on your litter the probability that at least one of the parents is not het blood is 95.8%. The good news is, that there is still a 4.2% probability that both parents are het blood - much better than your odds of winning the lottery - so breed them again next year.

The even better news is that even if you assume the worst case and figure that based on your litter it is much more likely (95.8%) that at least one of the parents is not het blood, you still have a 66% probability of the other parent being het blood.

If you were to get another similar sized litter next year with no bloods, the probability becomes extremely high that at least one of the parents is not het blood (another litter of 11 normals results in a probability of 1-0.75^22 = 99.8% that at least one parent is not het blood). Even then, with it being a near certainty that one parent is not het blood, there is still a 66% probability of the other parent being het blood - breeding these two together will yield no further information about whether one or zero of the pair are het blood.

At that point, to determine whether one or neither of these boas is het blood (and if one is het blood, to determine which one), you would have to breed each of them to blood or 100% het blood boas and see what you get.

Hope this helps! Best regards,

Steve Reiners

www.BoaMorph.com

thx for all the info steve. im all ears when it comes to this subject. i'll try them again next year and see what we get.

thx again, mark yeakle.

holy crap steve... you work for NASA or something?!
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0.1 BCI- Pheobe

I find Pheobe to be the most agreeable female I have ever come across. Dinner is cheap, she never wants to eat out, she can't talk, she's deaf and she doesn't care if I see other women.