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Possible IBD/ Anyone ever delt with it?

FutureBoaBreeder Jun 11, 2007 11:43 AM

I recently have been noticiing some problems with my ball python. Hes had trouble shedding, has trouble grabbing mice, and just seems odd, not himself. He was easily THE most active ball python i had ever seen when i first got him, i also got him from a very respected breeder who I'm not going to mention, because there were no problems when i first got him. He was kept in the same rack as my two pastel het boas, both of which show no symptoms. But I remember reading somewhere that IBD in ball pythons comes on much faster then in boas.

Its really been stressing me out, luckily i noticed these symptoms before i recieved my sharp strain, and currently have all the snakes serperate, especially the sharp strain which was never housed near any of the other boas. I'll be bringing the ball python to the vet soon and was curious if anyone here has delt with IBD, and had an idea of what kind of procedures need to be done to test for IBD, as well as how much it can cost. Any help appreciated.
thanks

Replies (11)

gmherps Jun 11, 2007 11:47 AM

is where this should be. Good luck with him!
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Greg Holland
GM HERPS
www.imageevent.com/gmherps
gmherps@sbcglobal.net

xrayeric1993 Jun 11, 2007 12:24 PM

Dispite your objections, I think he is in the correct forum. He is asking about his boas health and how fast symptoms of IBD will manifest in his boas.

FutureBoaBreeder Jun 11, 2007 01:36 PM

I was simply asking about IBD, if anyone has any first hand experience with it, and if so how is it diagnosed? And maybe a rough estimate at the cost of bringing a boa/python to a vet to be checked for this condition/disease/ whatever it is. Because if it turns out that my python has it, then that means i will definitly have to bring in my two boas that were housed in the same rack as him, as well as a new boa i purchased not long ago that has been in the same room as the other 3. I have 4 boas and one ball python. I think a post about the possibility of IBD in a collection consisting of four boas and only one ball python belongs here.

liquid-leaf Jun 11, 2007 01:42 PM

Well, not sure if anyone will be able to answer the cost question with any accuracy, since vets have such different experience with exotics and therefore very different pricing.

Though I believe testing involves liver biopsies from all possibly infected animals. Your best bet would be to call your vet and ask how THEY handle it.

However - there are other neurological conditions that can cause symptoms similar to IBD, that may not be infectious. Can your ball python right itself when turned over? I hope your animals aren't infected, that would be terrible to go through.
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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com | CageMakers
1.0 BP, 1.0 Hog Is., 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 0.1 GTP

TnK Jun 11, 2007 03:29 PM

Here are a few links to help you out,most of the opinion/studies are conclusive on several points.
The point that isnt expounded on "enough" is the method of transfer in captive collections,primarily the "airborne" theory isnt very well expanded nor is there any documentation on testing of that defined means/type of exposure.

If you have neo/juvie-racks in a room along with caged adults and one of them is proven IBDV positive,do you in fact have a valid cross contamination("Airborne" worry regardless of whether respectful animals were confined and maintained in their respective enclosures ?

Granted not all keepers practice the husbandry they preach. Short-cuts are used far more often then alluded to.(Many just quote web page data as a means of false advocacy)There are some that wash/sanitize in between handling animals as a general rule,but for what ever reason they will in fact do a "few" and then wash up before continueing serviceing their facilty.Those experienced with imports are generally better about protocal then the casual novice.Point is I dont believe there is perfection in any animal care.

What Im getting at is why the need to "put down" everything in ones collection without further proof from others showing the same or no symptoms ? muchless random testing.
Granted if you have been "sloppy"(and you know you have) then the extent or potential isnt going to be in your favor and its prolly best to fold the hand.

Or is that "in fact" the case ? After one experiences IBDV and then becomes "diligent" in regards to husbandry protocals now knowing the "fact(s)" one is afforded "Lucky Dog"status ?

With boides being Asymptomatic Carries and standards for quarantine(s) being advised at 3,6 and 12 months who is right ? Who is safe ?Animals previously thought to have been exposed still havent shown symptoms 12-24 months after the fact ?
Of coarse this is all just random rambling and scattered thoughts that one would run thru their uneducated processer,but thought/discussion provoking ? ...... Maybe ?
How much did/do you really know about AIDS 5-10 years ago?
Do you know for a fact your animals arent hiding something ?

http://tinyurl.com/2fxq34
http://tinyurl.com/27ba2z
http://tinyurl.com/yqt88a
This one will stretch your brain
http://tinyurl.com/28lvkw

TnK

>>I was simply asking about IBD, if anyone has any first hand experience with it, and if so how is it diagnosed? And maybe a rough estimate at the cost of bringing a boa/python to a vet to be checked for this condition/disease/ whatever it is. Because if it turns out that my python has it, then that means i will definitly have to bring in my two boas that were housed in the same rack as him, as well as a new boa i purchased not long ago that has been in the same room as the other 3. I have 4 boas and one ball python. I think a post about the possibility of IBD in a collection consisting of four boas and only one ball python belongs here.

charmer Jun 12, 2007 09:31 AM

Hi,
Just putting in my two cents, but I've ready MANY different theories, ranging from airborne carriers to that it takes direct contact with feces or sexual activity. The best thing to do is test the snake that seems to have the problem (which you are doing) if he in fact, is infected... then to have the others tested as well. There may be a chance that if they can only contract from contact or other intimate means, that they are perfectly fine. I think testing is the only for sure way to know. I have found a lot of information on the web, and it is more common than people seem to realize, and has of course, made me much more careful myself with my husbandry.
Good luck and be sure to keep us, or at least me ;p, updated... it is something you can't know too much about!
Steph S.

LordDreyfus Jun 12, 2007 10:17 AM

I've heard about using ball pythons as indicators. What about colubrids? Do they react as fast as pythons to IBD?

Travis
-----
Travis Rose
Lazy S Snake Ranch
(859) 582-7310
1.0 100% DH for Snow Boa
1.0 Hypo, 66% DH Moonglow Boa
0.1 Normal Common Boa
0.1 Circle Back Normal Boa
0.1 66% DH for Snow Boa
2.4 Kenyans
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
0.1 Very understanding wife
1.0 Toddler (WC...still bites and musks)

charmer Jun 12, 2007 11:49 AM

When you say, as indicators, you don't mean by purposely exposing them to a possibly infected snake to see if they contract symptoms do you? I doubt that is what you mean, but that is the way the statement made it sound.
As for colubrids, I'm not personally sure what other snakes contract IBD, I've mostly read about boas and balls, and heard a tiny bit about bigger pythons getting it. That would be something interesting to know, especially since most herpers have many different species in their collections.
Steph S.

senorsnake Jun 12, 2007 02:47 PM

I've heard of people using balls to try to detect IBD as well. Either intentionally with a boid who is suspected of being sick, or just throwing one in their collection so they'd know if something ever popped up.
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1.1 96, 04 Het Albino - "Suzie" & "Lumpy"
0.1 03 Poss. Het Albino - "Ami"
0.1 05 Super Salmon - "CreamSicle"
0.1 04 Anery Het Snow- "Squelchy"
1.0 04 DH-Sunglow - "Dwayne"
1.0 06 TH-Moonglow - "Gargamel"
1.2 01 BRBs- "Gobball", "Larva" & "Tofu"

TnK Jun 12, 2007 04:02 PM

Might as well use them for IBD birddogs,many of the surplus animals are already used as feeders.
Personally it doesnt matter to me.

TnK

>>I've heard of people using balls to try to detect IBD as well. Either intentionally with a boid who is suspected of being sick, or just throwing one in their collection so they'd know if something ever popped up.
>>-----

LordDreyfus Jun 12, 2007 06:51 PM

Unfortunately that is close to what I meant. I've heard of people using ball pythons that way, and I just wondered if colubrids reacted the same way or if they had some immunity.

If I actually thought a snake was infected, I would get a vet to perform tests rather than use another snake. I WOULD use another snake as an indicator following a 6-12 month quarentine period though. How else would I know that a boa was not a long term carrier? I would hate to lose any of my snakes....and I would not consider any snake "disposible" (hense the 1 year quarentine), but I would rather lose 2 than 20....plus run the risk of passing the disease along to other people's collections.

Travis
-----
Travis Rose
Lazy S Snake Ranch
(859) 582-7310
1.0 100% DH for Snow Boa
1.0 Hypo, 66% DH Moonglow Boa
0.1 Normal Common Boa
0.1 Circle Back Normal Boa
0.1 66% DH for Snow Boa
2.4 Kenyans
0.3 Dogs (1 Full Pitbull, 1 Pit/Husky, & 1 Bernese Mt. Dog cross)
0.3 Cats (1 fat, 1 old, and 1 insane)
0.1 Very understanding wife
1.0 Toddler (WC...still bites and musks)

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