Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey folks, I have a question...

about 3 weeks to 4 weeks ago I had my clutch of 8 Goini eggs hatch. They were early, but the temperatures had been pretty high due to AC failure. I was very pleased, however, to find that the 8 hatchlings all came out of the egg. As with my only other clutch, a cal king clutch earlier this year, I had one that had the umbilicus dragging, but unlike the cal king, which ended up pulling out its guts, this one seemed to get over it. Of course in both cases it was the most beautiful of the hatchlings.

Well I've been having trouble getting these guys to eat. I offered them all live newborn pinks after they shed. None of them ate. the second offering had two of them eat. Then I offerered them more live pinkies, and froze those pinkies after they were refused. The next attempt I offered them brained pinkies, and two who had refused before ate those, and one of the first to eat had a second meal of frozen thawed. Still have four that haven't eaten. Was just checking to see if they'd eaten any of the latest offerings and my most beautiful hatchling, the one I mentioned above, didn't try to bite me like all the others. She was dead.

Have I been too complaisant about not worrying that they aren't eating? It seems that most of the posts on here about "can't get the hatchlings to eat" include a lot of ideas to use before force feeding, and usually the worry is if they start to look starved. I haven't been concerned, and indeed the three remaining who haven't eaten still look quite robust.

Should I be freaking out about now, trying to force feed the three non-feeders? Is it my fault my little beauty died... because I didn't freak out that she wasn't eating? Any and all comments are appreciated. Thanks!
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~Sasheena

Sorry to here that.
I do not have this particular species snake. I do have Durango Mt. Kings. The wee ones can have you taking Prozac. I have learned to just start scenting with lizard and then change them over after several feeding. This has worked very well for me.

I place them in a small deli with the pinky for several hours placed in a dark non-traffic area. Just enough room for them and the pinky. Place the pinky along the inside edge. The snake will always circle around and bump into the pinky. I also worry about dehydration and keep a small humidity box with moss available or damp paper towel in the enclosure. Usually found them hiding in this box.

If your continued effort with brained pinks, F/T, and Live does not do the trick you might try scenting with a piece of lizard. (You have had a time this year haven’t you)?

Good Luck…..Dann

I have a question about scenting with lizard. I have a swimming pool and usually fish one or two lizards out a week... mostly they are dead. But occasionally alive. Also toads, though who knows where they come from here in Arid Arizona. Should I freeze one of the drowned lizards or toads and then use that to scent the pinkies, or should I go to petsmart and buy an anole and use that to feed my hatchlings (scenting you know). Caught a juvie whiptail yesterday in the swimming pool, alive, might have kept her if I had known of my troubles later in the day.

Anyway, thanks for your words of advice they do help. I still consider myself lucky that in both clutches seven out of eight that hatched (so far) have lived. now I just gotta get the remaining three non-feeders to eat!

>>Sorry to here that.
>> I do not have this particular species snake. I do have Durango Mt. Kings. The wee ones can have you taking Prozac. I have learned to just start scenting with lizard and then change them over after several feeding. This has worked very well for me.
>>
>>I place them in a small deli with the pinky for several hours placed in a dark non-traffic area. Just enough room for them and the pinky. Place the pinky along the inside edge. The snake will always circle around and bump into the pinky. I also worry about dehydration and keep a small humidity box with moss available or damp paper towel in the enclosure. Usually found them hiding in this box.
>>
>>If your continued effort with brained pinks, F/T, and Live does not do the trick you might try scenting with a piece of lizard. (You have had a time this year haven’t you)?
>>
>>Good Luck…..Dann
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~Sasheena

Sounds like the death was probably more related to the hatching incident than to lack of feeding. 2 weeks post shed is nothing to a healthy goini hatchling!

As far as scenting, before you try wild prey, try a CB cornsnake. Grab it and act like you are going to pop it so that it musks a little. Rub that cornsnake musk on a washed (in pure water only) live pink's head. Offer that to your picky feeding getulas. Sometimes it works like a champ...without the parasite risk OR without having to kill anything.

Be careful using pool-trapped lizards for scenting. The Chlorine (or whatever you use) in the water might not be to safe or leave a natural scent.

KJ

Hey Shasheena healthy getula hatchlings can go weeks, even months without feeding and still be healthy. I totally agree with KJUN- scent with snake musk. Goini/apalachicola kings are DEATH on snakes. Any ratsnake musk should do just fine. Better yet, get some musk from any of your other hatchlings or adult snakes and smear it all over a pinky- live or f/t.

Van

KJUN and Van are right on the money. I wouldn't use a lizard out of the pool because there won't be a whole lot of scent left on it.

Goini are hearty little buggers. They can go for weeks. When they get hungry, they'll eat. They aren't like Graybands, or Mt Kings or like that..they love snakes, but as a rule they are like Indigos...garbage disposals. When they are ready to eat, they should be no trouble to start on pinkies. And, I've found with those, as KJUN said, just the musk should be fine on any that are stubborn, PLUS, if you have to feed them a hatchling corn snake or something like that to get them started, they won't get stuck on snakes. Once you get a meal in them, whatever it is, half the battle is over.

I agree completely that your "crib-death" was not feeding related. It sounds like that one just came out before he was ready. Not your fault, it happens. Don't let this stuff discourage you. You are doing one helluva job for a first year. Many people can't even get their snakes to mate for the first couple of years. Next year will turn out even better!

Thanks to all you guys. I'm very glad to know that the likelihood of this being my fault is very minimal. I breathe a little easier, though feel like kicking up a fuss that the best looking baby in each clutch had to die. Ah well, this is what someone once mentioned... the best often are the biggest headaches. I know it now from personal experience.

The next time I try to feed the hatchlings (I like to give them a couple days break between attempts) I'll pull out my handy dandy corn snake and see if I can get some musk. Snake musk is one thing I have a lot of, though my corns have never ever musked. Would california kingsnake musk work too? The two remaining hatchlings I have from this year might be more prone to musk. Though truthfully I did try to get one to musk by trying to pop him again.... he just calmly let me and didn't seem to mind. I guess I shouldn't be too upset... calm hatchlings can be a good thing.

I have felt mostly lucky with my attempts at breeding this year. I only tried to breed two females, as I only had two females who were breeding age and size. Both were bred, both laid 8 good eggs (one had a slug too), and all eight hatchlings pipped and came out of the egg. All made it to their first shed, and I lost one from each clutch. I feel that is good odds relatively speaking, and boy are they BEAUTIFUL babies.

Thanks again for the words of encouragement.
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~Sasheena

Goini are hearty little buggers. They can go for weeks. When they get hungry, they'll eat. They aren't like Graybands, or Mt Kings or like that..they love snakes, but as a rule they are like Indigos...garbage disposals. When they are ready to eat, they should be no trouble to start on pinkies. And, I've found with those, as KJUN said, just the musk should be fine on any that are stubborn, PLUS, if you have to feed them a hatchling corn snake or something like that to get them started, they won't get stuck on snakes. Once you get a meal in them, whatever it is, half the battle is over.

I have three males that are only taking scented mice right now. One I've had for almost a year and he's only taken one unscented hopper the whole time I've had him. Basically, I've used dor Grey Rats and Corns, frozen them, cut them open, and rubbed mice in the body cavity just to get these kings to eat. They won't eat mice if you just rub it on the body of the snake. I would have thought they'd eat unscented mice by now but my battle continues on.

I dunno...I've never had that sort of problems with goini or any of the getula group for that matter. I've had several wild caught appalach over the years and they all seemed to do just fine. The juveniles might have wanted scented for a while, but they (as I recall anyway) all switched over without a lot of headache.

But the big thing is that they are eating something. You should be able to switch them over OK...

Scarlet Kings from Appalachicola (or anywhere for that matter) can be a different issue..but the getula have always been pretty easy and once you get them going on mice they are pretty ravenous.

As for appetite of my two CB adults...

The female will eat ANYTHING. I open up her rack and I'm holding a mouse... she will LEAP OUT of her enclosure, snag the mouse mid leap, constrict it, and hopefully i'm quick enough to get my hands under her to catch her before she reaches the ground. Luckily she only does that if I have a mouse. If I don't have a mouse she just wants to visit with me.

The male is much more picky of an eater. He prefers them stunned so they don't put up much of a fight. doesn't like them dead though.

The babies themselves are little feisty monsters... I expect to get bit half a dozen times if I open up their cages!
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~Sasheena

My CB goini has never been picky, but CB and WC can be like night and day in feeding habits (in general). Maybe the above poster's specimen ate a lot of snakes before he got it and just prefers them now.

(PS- yuck!)

My friend has a cal king she can't get to eat anything but live mice, mine which are greybands eat anything mouse smelling, including my fingers hehe. You'd think it'd be the other way around, but I'm not complaining.
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My greybands:
Prince Mandrake and Princess Caldera