Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, I'm back! (I haven't been posting for about a month) I have decided that my next pet will be a Ambilobe Panther Chameleon. I have spent the last month making my female's vivarium to be as mold and bacteria free(yet perfectly safe for my snake) as humanly possible. I was doing research on the chameleon and it seems that they are very sensitive to bacteria. I was wondering if I could employ the same methods I used in Kajika's cage. (Basically if chameleons are even more sensitive to mold and bacteria than brbs) I would like to house my chameleon in a vivarium, but everyone warns against using a substrate for chameleons. I keep Kajika's cage mold and bacteria free by planting the plants in normal plant soil inside pots buried deep in the coco-bark substrate. (so the plants can grow, but the bacteria and mold associated with the potting mix doesn't thrive) mold doesn't seem to grow in coco-bark. The coco-bark is covered in moss to discourage burrowing(it seems to work) I then bury or clean up the poop as I see fit. (bury to fertilize the plants, clean up to minimize bacteria growth.) Kajika seems very happy and healthy and I don't see or smell any mold or bacteria. I keep her water clean with a turtle filter, aquatic plants, and regular changing of the water. Would a similar substrate idea work with a chameleon? I will post this in the chameleon forum as well. (I know a vivarium for a snake is a lot of work, but I only have two snakes and I like their cages to be pretty)
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-Jasmine

1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
(Mercutio and Kajika)

Hi Jasmine! Chameleons are really cool animals, but require some very specific things. I'm sure you've read up on them, but a couple essentials are UVB lighting, a water dripper, and a screen cage. I really would not recommend substrate at all. It can harbor mold and it could also stick to its tongue when it is hunting. I'm glad you posted in the Cham forum as well, you'll find a bunch of wonderful and friendly people in there who are always willing to help out. I'm sure they'll give you the best information and point you to some good resources.

Panther Chameleons are so beautiful... please post a picture when you gen him/her.

My Veiled, Lucutis:

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©

Yes they are VERY VERY sensitive animals!!!

Not ones you want to handle or play with, they stress very easily. Better to look at and admire and maybe pull them out once or twice in a blue moon, to show them off or take them in the sun.

All cham's should be housed in a Screen Cage. Panthers get a good size on them so you want to get a good sized cage to go with it, so he/she can move around, explore, and most importantly exercise - all this is accomplished with a big cage, lots of branches, vines, and other things to climb on.

Panthers all come from the island of Madagascar, but depending on the species, is found in different parts. If I'm not mistaken mostly the northern tip along the west coast and a few on the east coast. Each species has different humidity and temperature requirements, but as all of them, they need a UVB source.

I would agree with the last post to stay away from substrate of any kind. The best thing would be paper towels or newspaper, simply because its easier to clean and very cheap! (Cleanliness is a very important part in keeing any chameleon)

All Panthers need regular misting sessions of a good amount of time. Some places would say to spray them for a good five minutes(I think this might be a little to long but you get the point!). This would give them water to drink and help keep their skin nice and fresh, and also help with the humidity in the enclosure! They would of course need a dripper set up to lap up the water from leaves and that kind of stuff aside from the misting.

Chams are also succeptable to some kinds of cyst's and other such growths. Either bacteria related, stress related, or even from an agressive cricket! Or even a worm that bit the lip on its way in the mouth!

All I can say is do lots and lots of reading and studying before you get the animal to make sure you have everything ready to go to keep the animal comfortable and happy!

Oh and one more thing - Its a good idea to have a big empty bowl at the bottom to catch any water that drips down - dont wanna be making a big mess everywere either!

Hope this helps!!!!!

Anthony

last time i checked this is a rainbow boa fourm so you should as ppl in the lizard fourm

I did, and this is asking for a comparison between the two. so it is perfectly acceptable in both the rainbow boa forum and the chameleon forum. (Man you leave a forum for a month, and suddenly you start getting nitpicky comments that you never got before.)
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-Jasmine

1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
(Mercutio and Kajika)

So many of us are not species specific and as a whole quite helpful to others on the forum. NP with the cham questions!!!

Me, I know nada about chams but they look awesome!!!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

That Chamaeleo calyptratus is super neat, kewl, awesome, and not to mention majestic looking!!!

I have never kept them, a few of my friends have kept and bred them, they lay a lot of eggs in a year, he was even selling eggs to people, which BTW must be kind of hardy for an egg, because people hatched them out. He also dropped a tray of them on the ground, they all still hatched. Was unreal, he used to breed them in a greenhouse in his back yard, one cham in each ficus tree with 3 feet between them, male would wait till female was receptive and crawl over to her ficus and mate with her. Very hardy lizard for a Cham's.

His male was HUGE, I couldn't get over how colorful they can get.

Super kewl!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Very true Frank!!! Veiled are very nice and very very colorful.

And also much more affordable than Panthers!!!!

But people like Panthers for the extreme range of colors they have. Even a solid blue!

... veiled are as far as I know the hardiest and most captive raising friendly chameleon out there.

Part of the reason for this is they come from saudi arabia and yemen so their humidity requirements are nowhere near the level of other chameleons. Veiled, as opposed to the misting levels mentioned for other types, can sucessfully be kept in an airconditioned house(dry air) with merely hand misting the cage in the morning and in the evening. Now they still need the heat lamps and uv but they are extremely drought tollerant for chameleons.

They even suspect that veiled can get almost all their needed moisture from food(remaining from dew in morning) as they are found in the wild in areas that go months without percipitation and which are miles from standing water.

Another few interesting facts is they can be trained to drink from a dish instead of from leaf. The females live arround 2 years and the males arround 4-5. They lay large quantities of eggs(arround 60 if memory serves me) every 6 months or so and can lay multiple viable clutches from a single mating because of the quantity of sperm they store.

They are very neat chameleons and the only advice I'd give if you ever get any veiled is that if you just want pets go with males as they live longer. Males can be visibly identified (by a fold of skin projecting/spuring from the back of the rear feet if memory serves).

Just thought would relay info I acquired from my mom getting set up for her veiled chameleon. Hope was helpful.

Sean.

well, a panther chameleon wouldn't cost much more than a brb and much less than a chondro (another item on my herp wish list) Anyway, I was just hoping I could make a pretty cage for a chameleon, but I guess that it just not possible. (sigh) by the way has anyone seen any functional yet pretty chameleon cages? if you have and it is online, please give me a link. (when i say pretty i don't mean a potted plant in a box)
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-Jasmine

1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
(Mercutio and Kajika)

ps why is everyone trying to convince me to get a veiled? I have already done a week of research(and plan to do more) I feel that I am up to the challenge, I know it is a display animal and I am very familiar with humidity/airflow problems and knwo to keep him in a screen cage, misting, drip system etc. I just had an idea and wanted to know if they were more sensitive than brbs. (which i gather they are, because believe it or not not all husbandry sites are written as a comparison to brbs.)
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-Jasmine

1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
(Mercutio and Kajika)

Well, no one is trying to "convince" you to get a veiled, my good friend Frank there was just expressing how much he likes them!

but the panthers are soooo pretty! I first saw one on the internet a week ago, and haven't been able to talk about anything else since then (which is really starting to annoy my boyfriend) Veiled don't seem to come in the same vibrant colors. I am planning on using my old screen cage that I made for a burmese about a year ago. (It is made of pbc and haevy duty plastic coated screen. I will just turn it on its side, and voila! an arboreal screen cage) it it about 3x3x4 ft. does anyone have any suggestions for prettifiying it?
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-Jasmine

1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
(Mercutio and Kajika)

That sounds perfect for an adult Panther! I use one of those PVC and screen cages for my Veiled. Get yourself some green colored zip-ties (sometimes called cable ties). I only say green because it seems to look better. You can zip-tie all kinds of fake leaves and brances to the PVC tubing. That is how I decorated Lucutis' cage... sorry I don't have a picture handy right now.

Basically I have a potted plant on the bottom to catch the water from the dripper. Then I have fake leaves that come on a long vine'like thing and a couple of those poseable vines zip-tied in there. He loves it, and it doesn't look too bad in my opinion.
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©

And why not, isn't the BRB the pinnacle of herp keeping? The herp all others should be compared to?
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

that's what I thought. anyway I guess this also means that I won't be able to do the standard vivarium background.(expanding foam and driftwood covered in coco-bark) that sucks!
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-Jasmine

1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
(Mercutio and Kajika)

If I had the room, I would get a panther myself, then again I like species that are challenging to keep.

Just not impossible like the fea's viper....

Azemiops feae

DeadlyBeautiful > Snakes

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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

why are you bringing up the fea's viper? do you have one? They are so beautiful!!! are those your pictures? this is exciting. are you going to get one?
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-Jasmine

1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
(Mercutio and Kajika)

I bought that up because while panther cham's may seem hard to keep, that viper is almost impossible to keep alive. Those pic's are off the net, I do not keep HOT snakes. This snake very rarely stays alive in the captive environment, I read an article on them many years ago and have had them stuck in my memory banks ever since. They are very unusual and pretty, from the literature I can find they are considered one of the toughest snakes to keep in captivity.

So everytime some speaks about an animal being hard to keep the fea's viper floods to the front of my mind!!
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

here...
venomdoc.com

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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

... I wasn't trying to convince you. It's just that veiled are the only ones I have first hand experience with so i thought I'd share the info if nothing else for comparison between species of chameleon.

As far as a pretty chameleon enclosure there are some thing's you can do. You will already be having one or more growing ficus or other plant in there I assume for climbing/hide/vegetable intake(just make sure it was not treated with any poisons that might harm the chameleon when injested). Substrate is a bad idea because of possible injestion but you can use a colored smooth floor(normally it is white) of that countertop like material that I can't remember the name of. In addition you can use plastic/molded sterile items to decorate/camoflage the bottom of the cage. Also you can use a backdrop on one side of the enclosure to create more of the natural look you want, just make sure to keep the other three sides open for cross ventilation. Keep in mind how zoos decorate/landscape their reptile enclosures and you'll get an idea of sterile ways to make it look a little better/natural.

sorry if sounded like was trying to change your mind.

Sean.

that guy Bill Love takes lots of pictures of Madagascan herpetofauna. The Old Malagasy Republic. I have a pair of Dumeril boas, they are also from Madagascar. I also love Phelsuma geckos and Mantella frogs.

Madagascar has got some unique wildlife.

Nosy be male Panther

Furcifer pardalis

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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Bill is coming to do a presentation at our local herp society in the fall.. I AM SO EXCITED!!

>>that guy Bill Love takes lots of pictures of Madagascan herpetofauna. The Old Malagasy Republic. I have a pair of Dumeril boas, they are also from Madagascar. I also love Phelsuma geckos and Mantella frogs.
>>
>>Madagascar has got some unique wildlife.
>>
>>Nosy be male Panther
>>
>>Furcifer pardalis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>
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photos.xtremecombatsports.com

I have a funny story about herp classes. I live in a VERY small (population 600) town in colorado, so it was very unusual for a herp class to be offered by a herptologist in the newspaper. It was a small two hour deal, but I was excited anyway. So I go, and take my boyfriend (who keeps dart frogs) with me. There are about 15 people there, (all adults). And the teacher spends the whole class teaching us that the way you can tell the difference between a lizard, a turtle, a frog, a salamander, and a snake is:
a lizard has legs and a tail but no shell.
a turtle has legs, a tail and a shell.
a frog has legs but no tail or shell.
a salamander has legs and a tail but no shell (like a lizard but without clawed feet)
and a snake has no legs, or shell, but does have a tail.
I was not expecting that. It did have entertainment value though...
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-Jasmine

1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
(Mercutio and Kajika)

...
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

-or-

>>Hi, I'm back! (I haven't been posting for about a month) I have decided that my next pet will be a Ambilobe Panther Chameleon. I have spent the last month making my female's vivarium to be as mold and bacteria free(yet perfectly safe for my snake) as humanly possible. I was doing research on the chameleon and it seems that they are very sensitive to bacteria. I was wondering if I could employ the same methods I used in Kajika's cage. (Basically if chameleons are even more sensitive to mold and bacteria than brbs) I would like to house my chameleon in a vivarium, but everyone warns against using a substrate for chameleons. I keep Kajika's cage mold and bacteria free by planting the plants in normal plant soil inside pots buried deep in the coco-bark substrate. (so the plants can grow, but the bacteria and mold associated with the potting mix doesn't thrive) mold doesn't seem to grow in coco-bark. The coco-bark is covered in moss to discourage burrowing(it seems to work) I then bury or clean up the poop as I see fit. (bury to fertilize the plants, clean up to minimize bacteria growth.) Kajika seems very happy and healthy and I don't see or smell any mold or bacteria. I keep her water clean with a turtle filter, aquatic plants, and regular changing of the water. Would a similar substrate idea work with a chameleon? I will post this in the chameleon forum as well. (I know a vivarium for a snake is a lot of work, but I only have two snakes and I like their cages to be pretty)
>>-----
>>-Jasmine
>>
>>1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
>>(Mercutio and Kajika)
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photos.xtremecombatsports.com

Jasmine,
....I have seen lots of people successfully keep a Veiled as their first Cham. I have seen very few people who do well with a Panther as their first Cham. This is probably greatly influenced by the much lower price of Veiled Chams, which allows more beginners to buy them but the Panthers are definitely harder to keep. What I have seen watching the reptile breeding industry for a long time is that loads of people were able to keep and breed Veiled Chams but as soon as they got really good at it they found that the WORK taking care of large numbers of babies made it not so fun and so they got out of breeding them. Veiled prices were relatively high for years and then when so many people learned to breed them they were avialble really cheap for awhile and the last few years people have quit breeing them and prices have come back up some. Panthers are less prolific and much harder to reproduce and so prices for them have stayed high all along.
....For someone like you who has experience working with herps and does lots of reseaerch a Panther might be an ideal first Cham. I would love to keep and breed Chams but my snakes already take too much of my time.
Jeff

>>Hi, I'm back! (I haven't been posting for about a month) I have decided that my next pet will be a Ambilobe Panther Chameleon. I have spent the last month making my female's vivarium to be as mold and bacteria free(yet perfectly safe for my snake) as humanly possible. I was doing research on the chameleon and it seems that they are very sensitive to bacteria. I was wondering if I could employ the same methods I used in Kajika's cage. (Basically if chameleons are even more sensitive to mold and bacteria than brbs) I would like to house my chameleon in a vivarium, but everyone warns against using a substrate for chameleons. I keep Kajika's cage mold and bacteria free by planting the plants in normal plant soil inside pots buried deep in the coco-bark substrate. (so the plants can grow, but the bacteria and mold associated with the potting mix doesn't thrive) mold doesn't seem to grow in coco-bark. The coco-bark is covered in moss to discourage burrowing(it seems to work) I then bury or clean up the poop as I see fit. (bury to fertilize the plants, clean up to minimize bacteria growth.) Kajika seems very happy and healthy and I don't see or smell any mold or bacteria. I keep her water clean with a turtle filter, aquatic plants, and regular changing of the water. Would a similar substrate idea work with a chameleon? I will post this in the chameleon forum as well. (I know a vivarium for a snake is a lot of work, but I only have two snakes and I like their cages to be pretty)
>>-----
>>-Jasmine
>>
>>1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
>>(Mercutio and Kajika)

thanks, I am glad u have faith in my ability to keep a panther chameleon. I think I am going to START setting up the cage and working all the kinks out of my humidity ideas today. Maybe I can get one in a month or two, then I'll post pics. =) That reminds me, i forgot to post the pics of Kajika's completely finished vivarium. it is beautiful(took me almost 6 months to make), and she seems to really like it. I will post the pics tomarow.(I still cant spell tomarrow) I have to admit, a screen cage with 70% humidity will be a little tricky, but I found so many helpful sites. I think I am going to have to use all of the methods(misters, drippers, and humidifiers) for raising humidity since I live in Colorado. But, for me half the fun is setting up the cage so I am SO excited.
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-Jasmine

1.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boas
(Mercutio and Kajika)