Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, I've been recently been posting pictures of my peruvian rainbow boa. I didn't know exactly the history on him because he was given to me by a friend but i now know where he comes from. Terry Vandeventer emailed me and said that his buisness "Arco Iris Herpetoculture" is the people that gave birth to him in mississippi. Just wanting everyone to know that he is from the "Arco Iris" bloodlines!

Brock

That is a stunning snake. Nice gift!

"These are the real thing!!! --> Bred and born in Peru

No I am not joking, but also i have counted the scales at midbody and its below 45 (41 and 42 is what i always get) unlike the brazillian raibows who have more than that. So counting the scales is the only way to truely identify that it is peruvian and i have done that so i KNOW for a fact he IS A TRUE PERUVIAN

Counting scales is not the ONLY true method of determining the orgin of a snake... DNA sampling can be done as well.. costly, yes but very effective when you need the paperwork to show for something.... I still say, like many other people, what you have is nothing more than a BRAZILIAN rainbow....

"These are the real thing!!! -- > Bred and born in Peru < -- at the only in-country boa breeding facility in the world. ARCO IRIS HERPETOCULTURE is proud to offer the first and only legal Peruvian Amazonian boidae in over twenty years!"

That comes straight from the webpage of Arco Iris Herpetorculture whom I have never heard of nor know of their bloodlines... Because these snakes were born in Peru does NOT make them Peruvians Rainbows... Their claims of being the first and only legal Peruvian boidae is false as well... As far as your rainbow goes, it's a good looking snake and all but to call it a TRUE Peruvian Rainbow isn't accurate...

It appears that "anygiven60" has a problem with me, although by his own admission he has never heard of me. His arrogant know-it-all tone plus the fact that he calls me a liar is more than enough reason for my reply.

His quote is from my old website. The quote is true and accurate. Prior to 1996 or 97 Peru had not given permits for wildlife taken from the eastern side of the Andes in over twenty years. Herps were legally exported from the western side but not from Amazonia. For years smugglers had taken herps from the Peruvian Amazon. Some came to the US while most went to Europe.

Ryan Richards, an American expatriot living in Peru had an idea for farming boas for the pet trade abroad. During the development of his business I assisted him in an advisory capacity. He had no experience with animals and was actually a bit fearful of snakes. I aided him with cage design, diets, sexing, breeding, rodent maintenence, and marketing. After much difficulty (years) he aquired the first and only export permit for Peruvian Amazonian wildlife. Brian Sharp and I went together and purchased his entire first year's production of redtail boas and rainbow boas. This farm is the real thing. It sells only captive bred stock. Not babies from already pregnant wild females.

The rainbow boa that Brock has shared with us was not born in Peru. It is a third-generation baby born here at my facility from the snakes recieved on that original first shipment. It's bloodline is 0 Peruvian. The remark that "any given60" made about rainbows from Peru are not necesarilly being "TRUE" Peruvians is utterly assinine. Example: There are virtually no "TRUE" Brazilian rainbow boas in the USA (at least not legal ones). They all came from Suriname and Guyana. Even Bill Lamar's famous bloodline came from southeastern Colombia, not Brazil!

I have captured rainbow boas for over the past ten years while working throughout the Peruvian Amazon. I have examined hundreds in cages at the illegal wildlife compounds. How many has "anygiven60" caught or even looked at? When did he last travel to South America?

The subspecies "gaigae" is an invalid taxon which was never accepted in scientific circles or used in publication. It's a subsepecific epthet that is seen only in the pet snake breeding business. The photo on p.221 of Ross & Marzec is labeled as a gaigae but is in fact a snake of unknown origin. That single beautiful snake gave rise to the interest in Peruvian-derived rainbow boas. I have found that scale counts for wild Peruvian snakes hover in the low 40s, even in the north. A few exhibit the gaigae characteristic of completely encircled lateral dots (look like yellow-ringed bull's eyes) rather than the more normal yellow cresent. They are not always colorful but can be stunning. It is my opinion however, that they may grow larger. Most of the breeders at the compound are in excess of seven feet.

Our friend "anygiven60" doesn't know what he's talking about and should keep his ill-founded opinions to himself. Brock's snake is a beautiful "TRUE" (whatever you take that to mean) Peruvian rainbow boa. I am proud to have produced that snake right here in Jackson, Mississipp. If any of y'all want to see more fine Peruvians, stop by my tabe at the IHS/EHT Houston show in September and I'll show you some!

Sincerely,

Terry L. Vandeventer
Arco Iris (spanish for "rainbow" Herpetoculture

Terry,
. I believe that anygiven60 is basing his opinions on what he has learned from several sources about Rainbow Boas. One of those sources might be my website. The Epicrates cenchria gaigei IS a valid taxon. It was described by Stull in the 1930s, the type specimen is in the collection of the University of Michigan and the subspecies is included in virtually all of the reptiles books with lists of boid species and subspecies.In Stull's description of the type specimen and several other specimens he does not mention the completely circled lateral spots. That description of gaigei having the completely circled side spots is the falacy that is most common about this subspecies in the captive breeding trade. The completely circled side spots do not occur in all gaigei and they do occur in some E.c.cenchria. Perhaps anygiven60 is as perplexed as I am by people who claim they have gaigei when in fact most of their gaigei are actually E.c.cenchria. The PIC of the "Peruvian" in the Ross and Marzec book was used in a magazine article and was labled as a Brazilian Rainbow Boa. I agree with you that we do not know what that snake is.
Jeff

>>It appears that "anygiven60" has a problem with me, although by his own admission he has never heard of me. His arrogant know-it-all tone plus the fact that he calls me a liar is more than enough reason for my reply.
>>
>>His quote is from my old website. The quote is true and accurate. Prior to 1996 or 97 Peru had not given permits for wildlife taken from the eastern side of the Andes in over twenty years. Herps were legally exported from the western side but not from Amazonia. For years smugglers had taken herps from the Peruvian Amazon. Some came to the US while most went to Europe.
>>
>>Ryan Richards, an American expatriot living in Peru had an idea for farming boas for the pet trade abroad. During the development of his business I assisted him in an advisory capacity. He had no experience with animals and was actually a bit fearful of snakes. I aided him with cage design, diets, sexing, breeding, rodent maintenence, and marketing. After much difficulty (years) he aquired the first and only export permit for Peruvian Amazonian wildlife. Brian Sharp and I went together and purchased his entire first year's production of redtail boas and rainbow boas. This farm is the real thing. It sells only captive bred stock. Not babies from already pregnant wild females.
>>
>>The rainbow boa that Brock has shared with us was not born in Peru. It is a third-generation baby born here at my facility from the snakes recieved on that original first shipment. It's bloodline is 0 Peruvian. The remark that "any given60" made about rainbows from Peru are not necesarilly being "TRUE" Peruvians is utterly assinine. Example: There are virtually no "TRUE" Brazilian rainbow boas in the USA (at least not legal ones). They all came from Suriname and Guyana. Even Bill Lamar's famous bloodline came from southeastern Colombia, not Brazil!
>>
>>I have captured rainbow boas for over the past ten years while working throughout the Peruvian Amazon. I have examined hundreds in cages at the illegal wildlife compounds. How many has "anygiven60" caught or even looked at? When did he last travel to South America?
>>
>>The subspecies "gaigae" is an invalid taxon which was never accepted in scientific circles or used in publication. It's a subsepecific epthet that is seen only in the pet snake breeding business. The photo on p.221 of Ross & Marzec is labeled as a gaigae but is in fact a snake of unknown origin. That single beautiful snake gave rise to the interest in Peruvian-derived rainbow boas. I have found that scale counts for wild Peruvian snakes hover in the low 40s, even in the north. A few exhibit the gaigae characteristic of completely encircled lateral dots (look like yellow-ringed bull's eyes) rather than the more normal yellow cresent. They are not always colorful but can be stunning. It is my opinion however, that they may grow larger. Most of the breeders at the compound are in excess of seven feet.
>>
>>Our friend "anygiven60" doesn't know what he's talking about and should keep his ill-founded opinions to himself. Brock's snake is a beautiful "TRUE" (whatever you take that to mean) Peruvian rainbow boa. I am proud to have produced that snake right here in Jackson, Mississipp. If any of y'all want to see more fine Peruvians, stop by my tabe at the IHS/EHT Houston show in September and I'll show you some!
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>Terry L. Vandeventer
>>Arco Iris (spanish for "rainbow" Herpetoculture

Brock,
. I am not sure how you are counting scales. Just looking at your PIC I can see what looks like it is gonna be scale row counts greater than 45. Obviously I cannot see all the way around your snake in the PIC but counting up from the bottom I get to 21 without getting all the way up to the backbone. When Terry first had Rainbow Boas from Peru on his website he was getting the babies from Ryan M. in Iquitos. At that time Ryan told me via email conversations that all of the Rainbows he was exporting from Peru were Brazilian Rainbows. Terry was pretty careful on his website to describe the snakes as Rainbow Boas from Peru rather than calling them Peruvian Rainbows or Epicrates cenchria gaigei. AFAIK Ryan still is the only person legally exporting any boids from Peru and his exported Rainbows are still all Brazilian Rainbows.
Jeff

>>Hi, I've been recently been posting pictures of my peruvian rainbow boa. I didn't know exactly the history on him because he was given to me by a friend but i now know where he comes from. Terry Vandeventer emailed me and said that his buisness "Arco Iris Herpetoculture" is the people that gave birth to him in mississippi. Just wanting everyone to know that he is from the "Arco Iris" bloodlines!
>>
>>Brock
>>

I have true Peruvian Rainbows, on my snakes locality data were animals collected out of Peru. Scale count matches up as well.

Animals in my collection are from 2 bloodlines (one came from Pro Exotics and the second two from Exceptional Exotics). Two of the snakes look very similar to the snake in the Boa and Python book, the third snake looks more like the Peruvian on Jeff Clarks website a bit darker however all scale counts match up.

The boas were sold as Peruvians, any insight is appreciated.

Truly,
Paul Bodnar

Truly,
Paul Bodnar

>>I have true Peruvian Rainbows, on my snakes locality data were animals collected out of Peru. Scale count matches up as well.
>>
>>Animals in my collection are from 2 bloodlines (one came from Pro Exotics and the second two from Exceptional Exotics). Two of the snakes look very similar to the snake in the Boa and Python book, the third snake looks more like the Peruvian on Jeff Clarks website a bit darker however all scale counts match up.
>>
>>The boas were sold as Peruvians, any insight is appreciated.
>>
>>Truly,
>>Paul Bodnar
>>
>>
>>Truly,
>>Paul Bodnar

>>I have true Peruvian Rainbows, on my snakes locality data were animals collected out of Peru. Scale count matches up as well.
>>
>>Animals in my collection are from 2 bloodlines (one came from Pro Exotics and the second two from Exceptional Exotics). Two of the snakes look very similar to the snake in the Boa and Python book, the third snake looks more like the Peruvian on Jeff Clarks website a bit darker however all scale counts match up.
>>
>>The boas were sold as Peruvians, any insight is appreciated.
>>
>>Truly,
>>Paul Bodnar
>>
>>
>>Truly,
>>Paul Bodnar

>>>>I have true Peruvian Rainbows, on my snakes locality data were animals collected out of Peru. Scale count matches up as well.
>>>>
>>>>Animals in my collection are from 2 bloodlines (one came from Pro Exotics and the second two from Exceptional Exotics). Two of the snakes look very similar to the snake in the Boa and Python book, the third snake looks more like the Peruvian on Jeff Clarks website a bit darker however all scale counts match up.
>>>>
>>>>The boas were sold as Peruvians, any insight is appreciated.
>>>>
>>>>Truly,
>>>>Paul Bodnar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Truly,
>>>>Paul Bodnar

Jeff,

I think I am the last serious herper on earth who as not purchased a digital camera, planning to buy one at this years' end. If really interested we can swap good old fashion Kodak pictures.

Truly,
Paul Bodnar