Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey Mike, how'd you make out with that cage made of Landscape Timbers for the Jobiensis? I was nervous about it at the time, but now I'm curious as to how things have been with it as I'm working on a "project" at the moment and the landscape timbers would be VERY handy.
As for anyone else that cares to respond, please do so. My other question is, when it comes to larger branches/logs, how do you guys usually go about making sure there are no parasites or bugs on them before placing them in the enclosures?
-Brian

Somewhere a few pages back this was hit on and the consensus was "no worries" its sort of a "wifes tale" . i remember along time ago some "herp gurus" would say bake them, soak in solution,ect... i would just give them a good once over check and be done. cheers,zak.

Brian
The new enclosures are working out GREAT!
My Monitors are all doing FANTASTIC! My adults have been courting and I have a young female cycling.
As for logs and what not from outside, with Varanids I just give them a quick rinse with the hose if at all.
Never had any problems!
Mike

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Mike's Monitors!

Good to hear Mike! I wish you luck, that's a gorgeous pair you have.
When you get a chance, check your e-mail again, needed your opinion on a few things.
-BT

Hi Brian, Well try asking the same question differently and see what you get. Ask, are wood cages good for monitors. And all that have used them will tell you, No they suck over time. Monitors use lots of heat(in part of the cage) and lots of humidity. This combination does not work well with wood over time. This is common knowledge and true.

With Mike, as you and I have seen over the years, he is a nice guy, a cup half full fella. Its all working great until it doesn't. Then hes off to something else. Of course I hope he does not fail.

The truth is, wood/log sides, is not what makes monitors succeed/fail, its understanding the monitors that makes them succeed/fail. Not the wood on the side of the cages. That wood is called a wall. A wall is to enclose, thats its job.

I like walls that do not deteriorate over time(wood does) I like walls that Keeps things in the cage, things that are suppose to be kept in the cage. Of course, that normally means monitors, but it also means the insects that you feed them. And sometimes it means feral/evasive insects that hitch a ride with those feeder insects. A cage wall that allows these nasty bugs to climb all over and get out, is not what I want from a wall. Also, a wall of logs will over time warp and twist and crack, which means at some time, it will let those insects out. Maybe even let the monitors or their babies out.

It also means keeping the feral/invasive insects that hitch a ride of the cage furniture you bring in. These include, ants, wasps, kissing bugs(the nastist of them all) spiders of all manner, including widows and recluse.

I do not bake or do anything to cage funiture. I like the bugs better then drugs and I do not have an oven you can stick 10 ft logs in. Of course I often leave them in the sun and let them BAKE, its hot here. But then they often attract lizards(very common) Which is another reason I do not disinfect logs. I like the lizards that are commonly housed in them. I have not had a snake hitch a ride yet, but that would be cool.

So as simple as this sounds and as simple as I am, I like a cage to do its job and I like the cage furniture to do its job. That gives me control to do my job, which is to allow the monitors to do their job. And not like Mike(in this case, Mikey likes everything) My monitors DO their job and have done so for many years, over and over.

Now for the kicker, Those wooden walls are much like Artificial rock walls. Its for you and not the monitor, if it blows your lower outer garmets up(makes you happy) and your willing to put up with all the extra work and problems, GO FOR IT. Just realize what and who its for. Its for you. Whats important about understanding that is, later you can answer a monitor question with some accurracy.

I like to make anything that requires EXTRA work, about the monitors, as they are the subject and are deserving of that work. To have to work on cages all the time would not make me a monitor keeper, but instead a cage keeper and monitors are only a placeholder. Which is OK too, but again, try not to confuse the issue and keep all this stuff in context.

The CONTEXT
Cages are too enclose a controlled system and allows the keeper to apply husbandry.

Considering the history of captive monitors, husbandry is mostly the lack of, not the addition to. Monitors are what lives in these cages.

Lastly a small thought. I would think one would spend their effort working on allowing the monitors to become successful. Once you understand that, then you can affort to do EXTRA things to please you the keeper. But to make fancy, pretty cages and all such is sad when you do not have the knowledge to of what it takes to allow the monitors success. I would think it is only considerate of the monitor, to learn the monitors needs first and not practive gimmick husbandry. In my opinion, gimmick husbandry is about the keeper and not the kept. Cheers

All valid points Frank.
Thanks for your imput!
Mike

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Mike's Monitors!

I had no intention on using the logs to make a wall, however I think they would make great cage furniture, nice platforms for climbing and basking. My only concerns are the chemicals used to treat them.

Hi Brian, but thats not what you asked.

Also, I answer a question or respond to "the" question, with an answer that effects many, as this is not a PM its open to everyone. As such, many take these things, THEIR WAY. And its normally a follow the leader type of approach. Someone recomends or talks positively about something and off and running they go. Examples are cattle troughs, retes boards, etc. They are not end all things, just a tool to do a job, there are many tools. If you understand why you need a tool, it makes picking the right tool easy.

Most simply do not understand that. Or at least appear to not understand that. As a huge example, since the time you were here commonly, very little has changed. Very few are successful and the same awful questions are commonly asked. In spite of great long term success my others and I.

So I wonder, whats the deal, why can't folks figure out such an easy task. Truely, I cannot understand that.

I know this is going to sound funny but, Why would you want a fake manifactured log over a real one. Particularly when you live in an area with lots of trees.

Also, Its not the wood that attracts monitors, ITs the feel of the wood. The surface of real wood attracts them. In particular, the bark or the surface of dead limbs after the bark has fallen off. Or wedging between the smooth surface and the dead bark. Not a piece of wood which recently met a saw blade(ruff, like wiping your bum with a corn cob) You can do that, but WHY? Cheers

Fair enough, after re-reading, it wasn't what I had asked.
As for not getting real pieces of wood, you're right, I live in a place with lots of trees (the middle of the woods in fact), and yet oddly enough, it's difficult to find branches lying around that have a diameter any larger than 2". Those that do have the larger diameter which I would prefer for a larger animal, usually won't fit in the camaro length wise. Maybe when the time comes to go collecting, I'll have to include a saw. For right now though, just doing some thinking and brainstorming and questioning.

So your limiting factor is a camaro and a saw.

Around here, people chose their friends, not by how well they do with animals, but instead, if they have a truck and a chainsaw. hahahahahahahahahaha.

In truth its not the monitors that restrict folks from succeeding with them. Those folks just have too many and all sorts of self imposed limitations. Cheers

Hello Brian, You mentioned wood treatment. I was a production manager for a wood treatment facilty during the mayhem of CCA (a very very safe wood treatment method ruined by propaganda due to "A" meaning arsenic...the powers had a field day with lawsuits) that caused a switch to ACQ treatment which is supposedly safer than the CCA...One high speed "Wood Tech" broke it down like this...you get more dangerous chemical from eating a shrimp cocktail than by consuming a whole 2x4-8ft treated to .40(CCA) chemical retention. So I guess its up to you maybe the sawn timbers fit what ever set up you envision. I'd go with FR on using something that feels natural to them...then again monitors are ofetn found near people and utilize all sorts of materials man made or not. Happy building, big ears.

Excellent post Frank. I really that term "gimmick husbandry". Nicely aimed and piercing.

And like you say below, why not just get some natural logs for cage furnishings? Guess that must be a city people thing. For me it' an excuse to play with the chainsaw.

It should read: "I really like that term"