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Care? Places to buy? anything? Neat species, but its difficult to find info on them

>>Care? Places to buy? anything? Neat species, but its difficult to find info on them

Try this page, it describes his ideal temp range from basking to ambient temp.

http://www.chameleonnews.com/year2002/may2002/minor_captive/captive_minor.html

Diane
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1.0 Veiled Chameleon (Deuce)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Scout)
1.0 Mastiff (Murphy)
1.0 Humane Society Mutt (Darwin)
2.0 Cats (Tigger & Duke)
1.0 Holland Lop Rabbit (Leo)
0.2 Humans (Diane and Liz)

Yeah, i just talked to the guy who wrote that article and he said that there are no Furcifer minor left in North America, Which really sucks because you cant import them either. Sigh.... what a waste

Please don't think of export/import bans as a "waste". So little is known about wild populations of almost any cham species that it is only conservative to limit or stop wild capture until the country of origin has some idea whether the population can tolerate collection for the pet trade. No one wants to see species be collected into extinction. It also gives the whole hobby a bad reputation. Madagascar just doesn't have the resources to manage its wildlife yet, and hasn't demonstrated that most of its cham trade is sustainable. The down side to bans is that dedicated breeders can't get animals to work with of course, but they do protect vulnerable species in the mean time.

Yeah, i understand that, but it just seems to me that if you are going to have a ban like this, it would probably be a good idea to also help the animal. I understand that the country is not in a financial position to help much of their long endangered species list. But wouldnt it make sense to allow a reputable breeder in the US to WC a couple of examples in order to build interest in the plight of the Minor's? AT least that way they loose a couple of animals to the pet trade, but it turn it raises awareness and support in a country that might be able to affect the status of the wild animals.

>>Yeah, i understand that, but it just seems to me that if you are going to have a ban like this, it would probably be a good idea to also help the animal. I understand that the country is not in a financial position to help much of their long endangered species list. But wouldnt it make sense to allow a reputable breeder in the US to WC a couple of examples in order to build interest in the plight of the Minor's? AT least that way they loose a couple of animals to the pet trade, but it turn it raises awareness and support in a country that might be able to affect the status of the wild animals.

This works very well for charismatic mega-fauna like pandas but relatively few individuals in the public setting would find a small chameleon significantly distinct from any other lizard to warrant extra protection or funds. For something like this to possibly work or seem appealing to wildlife management authorities, it would have to be in a zoological setting where the most individuals would be able to see the specimens and possibly take an interest. This is rarely the best place for breeding or even maintaining even the hardiest of chameleons.

What needs to happen is there needs to be a continued growth in protected habitats in Madagascar where species like this live. Thankfully, over recent years, a number of new parks have been established, but there is always need for more. Once these parks have been established, then there might be significant enough protection to show that limited trade wouldn't significantly impact wild populations and in theory, the CITES ban could be lifted. Will this ever happen? Probably not but as horrible as it is, would you prefer to have a species disappear because we didn't stop removing unreasonable numbers from the wild or because habitat wasn't set aside fast enough? Obviously the end result is the same but I don't want to be the reason for their extinction or be a part of speeding up the process by pulling them from their limited populations while habitat continues to decrease...

What is the best thing that we can do in situations like this? 1) Don't by animals you aren't qualified to maintain successfully. If you aren't experienced enough to work with WC specimens, don't support bringing in such large numbers by purchasing them. If you aren't experienced enough to work with a particular species, leave them to someone who is and hopefully minimize loses of that species in captivity. 2) Support research efforts focusing on the countries of origin for these species. This research doesn't need to be directly chameleon related as protection of habitats occurs fastest in areas that show a wide diversity of vulnerable or unique inhabitants, not just chameleons.

There are many species in Madagascar and other countries that are incredible and that most hobbyists have hardly seen. The pet trade is not the answer to conserving them, unfortunately and if we are going to continue to maintain them in captivity, it requires us to make efforts and "sacrifices" in order to prevent our impact from leading to extinctions.

Chris
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Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Co-Founder: ChameleonInfo.com-http://www.chameleoninfo.com/
Editor: Chameleons! Online E-zine- http://www.chameleonnews.com/
Admin: Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tracking Database (CCBTD)- http://www.chameleondatabase.com/
Founder: Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC)- http://www.chamaeleonidae.com/

Chris,
I didnt even know you were on this site. I was the guy who sent you an email from mirrorman_productions. I have another question, why does Madagascar have so many cham species?

I'm sure Chris will chime in here, but I'll take a stab at it.

Some theorize that Madagascar/east coast of Africa was the evolutionary "birthplace" for chameleons. Chameleons have been around a long time possibly before the island drifted away from the African mainland. Chams became more specialized as they were isolated from the African mainland. As this new type of arboreal lizard developed and filled ecological niches in different habitats, they evolved into variations of the basic form. Some colors and markings or size were more successful than others depending on the habitat and the successful ones passed their genes on to future generations. Think about Oustaleti and verrucosus. Similar to panthers, but colored and more tolerant of the dry thorny forests and karsts where they are now found. It was probably not to their advantage to show bright colors in those places. For its size, Madagascar has quite a diverse range of habitats...often isolated from each other. Chams don't migrate or travel a lot, so they are more likely to separate into species. Populations of animals that are isolated tend to become more distinct over time.

The colors of the panthers especially seem so contrary to an evolutionary benefit. I know it helps to communicate with others of the same species and i understand that the males who are brighter are also the strongest and most desirable to females, but it just seems like the ones that were not as bright would live longer. The other big example is birds. The brighter the bird, the more desirable it is. But birds have a natural defense... flight. Chams dont. An interesting evolutionary twist. Makes chams all the more interesting.

Actually, bright colors can break up the outline of a prey animal into patches or stripes that make them hard for a predator to pick out of a "busy" background of branches, leaves, and flowers which the Malagasy forests are full of. It is called "disruptive coloration" and is sort of the same idea as stripes on gazelles or spots on a giraffe. If the cham was a solid color regardless of the color, it would be much easier to see. This, and their talent for staying incredibly still, makes it hard to find even a bright-ly displaying male. Most predators' vision is geared to movement anyway. Bright colors also confuse predators, especially if they change while they are watching.

I know that pattern breaks up your silloete, but the colors themselves seem a little strange for the background. Plus, one of the chams main preditors is birds who usually have very good eyes and can see color. So the females would be very well concealed because of smooth colors and patterns. The males would be much easier to spot.