Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey gang! I'm getting a bit worried about my beardie. She's about 7 months old, and until lately, she's always been a great eater. (except for the fact that she's never ever eaten any greens)

A few weeks ago, she stopped eating crickets, so I switched to mealworms. She gobbled them up for about a week, but now she will only eat 4-5 every other day. She still poops, but once every 2-3 days now instead of every day. Her last poop was yesterday and it was quite big and all the parts were there. (sorry...a bit graphic)

Anyway, she's also been quite skiddish the past few weeks. She jumps every time I put my hand near her, and hates being picked up. She wasn't even basking for a while, but the last few days that's gotten better.

I'm wondering if her new home set things in motion. Last month I moved her to her bigger cage. She seemed to love it at first though...I dunno.

Oh yeah...top of the basking log is about 105, though she rarely goes to the very top. Inside her cinder block "cave" is about 70.

Any ideas as to what's going on? Thanks, guys!

Niddy & Bindy

I never feed mealworms. You should try silkworms. They are soft bodied and will not leave undigested parts. The important thing though is to provide a variety of food. So you should keep at least 2 kinds of live food.

Is it possible that she may be gravid? How long is she? How much does she weigh?

I'd really recheck your setup too. Make sure the basking spot is 105-110 with a temp. gun or digital thermometer with a separate probe. The background temp. on the hot side should be high eighties or low nineties. The cool side should be 75 - 80. I think that the cave being 70 seems too low. Are your lights on 14 and off 10? What are you using for UVB? Are you supplementing the food? Are you putting greens in every day?

You should post a picture of your setup. The 2 main reasons a healthy dragon stops eating are Brumation and ready to lay eggs.

Hey BDlvr!
I met niddy on another forum back when she first got Bindy (beardie). Niddy is a fine person that LOVES Bindy to death and strives to raise her right.

After several e-mail exchanges between us about Bindy's condition I was unable to put my finger on anything so I told her she should come post here. I told niddy that there are some knowledgeable, more experinced, keepers here than me that hopefully can see something I didn't.

I don't want to post my hunches at the moment because I don't want to pollute or distract anyone's train of thought. Ya'll do me a huge favor & take care of Bindy/niddy and I'll owe ya one. I'll make it up to ya somehow or another.

For the sake of progressing this as fast as possible I'll answer the questions that I know.

> > > "Is it possible that she may be gravid? How long is she? How much does she weigh?"
Never been with a male.
Length/weight unknown by me. I'm thinking she's around 16-inches but don't hold me to that.

> > > "What are you using for UVB?"
No UVB, UVA, only, supplementation. We both follow a proven set of standards on this and there hasn't been any signs of deficiency, etc...

> > > "What is the substrate?"
Raised on reptile carpet but new cage has play sand.

> > > "Is she kinda frantic to get out of the cage?"
YES! She flinches quite a bit, as if terrified of being picked up.

That's all the Qs I can answer with any certainty. Niddy can/will pickup the rest. Thanks for taking a look, BDlvr.

Have a good one!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Just looked at the pic. you posted a few days ago.

I assume she hasn't been with a male. Correct? I think it's very possible that she may be gravid looking at the pic. 7 months is early, one of mine laid eggs this year at 8 months having never been with a male.

Does she try to dig in her enclosure? What is the substrate? Is she kinda frantic to get out of the cage?

I also thing that branch you have is too small for her to get comfotable. You need something wide that she can stretch out on as the basking spot.

Thanks so much for the help, BDlvr! And HH, gosh you bout know Bindy better than myself! lol And thanks for answering the gravid question! Had no idea what that meant.

Yes, Bindy's never been with a fella. Not yet anyway.

Her temps...I agree. It seems awfuly cold in her lil cave. Thankfully the past few days, she's been sleeping outsite of it.

"Is she kinda frantic to get out of the cage?" (how do you make these bold, HH?)
YES, but not her new cage. I used to put her in her smaller cage to feed her, but I Stopped recently because she was doing just that...acting frantic to get out.
HH is right, she has been jumpy when I stick my hand in there, but I just stuck my hand in to pet her, and she let me without freaking. Yaay.

"How long is she? How much does she weigh?"
Length was pretty close HH. About 15 inches. Dunno her weight, but she's quite fat lol.

"Does she try to dig in her enclosure?"
A couple of weeks ago, she did this for like 2 days, but that's it.

"You need something wide that she can stretch out on as the basking spot."
lol The other side is much wider. It was a brand new setup, and she decided to go up the "hard way" first. Now she basks on the comfy side.

"You should try silkworms"
I'll do that. I've tried phoenix worms, but she hated them. I also gave her a few superworms just to see what she'd do. She ate a few, but it's obvious that mealworms are her fav right now. I do offer her greens daily, but she has yet to touch them. She smelled em yesterday, and I got soooo excited, but that was it.

I do worry about her getting her calcium. I was wondering, since I dropper-feed her her water, (she has never taken a drink from her water dish...the weirdo) can I add the calcium to her water?

Thanks again for trying to help me figure this ouit, guys!

Jeni and Bindy

Oh forgot to mention something in my other post..

Give your dragon a soak in luke warm water (about 75-80F) this will give her plenty of opportunity to drink (most tend to drink more out of a bath than standing water anyway). Soak for about 10 minutes or so.

Most dragons won't drink out of standing water anyway, misting or bathing is pretty much the only way to get them to drink.
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PHLdyPayne

Your dragon is definitely at an age where she should be eating greens as well as insects.

What greens have you tried?

www.beautifuldragons.com has a great list of greens and vegetables and a guide on how often to feed each type of green.

Mixing greens up with a couple staple greens, is the best way to go, to expose your dragon to as much variety as possible. Same goes with insects.

From the post your friend hillbilly put up, he indicates you do not use any UVB/UVA lights, just supplements. Though it is possible to do this, I don't recommend it at all to people who are pretty new to keeping bearded dragons. The need of UVB and UVA exposure is not completely understood in reptiles but it is known that UVB is needed for proper production of vitamin D and calcium synthesis. Thus, I suggest you get her a UVB light, or take her outside for natural sunlight for about 30 mins a day or 4-5 hours a week (spread out over several days).

Make sure your dragon is hydrated. If she's only eating insects, she isn't getting as much moisture as she should. Dragons get the bulk of their moisture from their food and greens have a much higher moisture content on average than most insects. As BDLvr suggested, offer silkworms. These are great feeders, don't cause impaction, contain high amounts of water as well as calcium and protein. Drop a few of these on her greens...if she eats them, she's going to get a few greens anyway, as silkworms will cling to the greens they are on and if your greens are freshly washed or misted, these are likely to stick to the worms too.

Other insects foods that can be mixed into a dragon's diet are butter worms, hornworms, roaches and instead of mealworms, superworms though superworms shouldn't be a staple insect, but they are better than mealworms, more 'meat' than exoskeleton.

One last comment. The new cage. I am assuming the picture below is her in her new cage? If so, I suggest covering the back wall with black construction paper or bristol board, or even an aquarium/terrarium backdrop. Being exposed on all sides can be very stressful to a dragon which can use skittishness, lack of appetite etc. The fact she spends alot of time hiding, could be due to being stressed by all the activity around her.
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PHLdyPayne

Thanks for the advice, PHLdyPayne! I was soaking her regularly, but she really hates it and I suspected it was adding to her skiddishness, so I stopped for a while.

Ok...greens and other stuff I've tried: romain lettice, collard greens, mustard greens, kale, raddish greens?, apple, yellow squash, there's prolly been more, but I can't remember. She sticks her nose uup at em all. I do put worms on her greens, but she's a very good aim and ONLY gets the worms.

I'll for sure try the silkworms.

Thanks again,
Niddy n Bindy

Every dragon is different. It's our job as to figure out what they are trying to tell us. Believe me with multiple dragon pets this can be very challenging at times. So my take is I try everything until I figure it out. Eventually you will know Bindy so well you won't even have to think about it.

If you want to know my impression, I'd consider that she is gravid. This year I paid $176 to a vet for an untrasound on a 16" 240 gr. dragon I couldn't believe was gravid (never been with a male and only 8 mo. old) I won't make that mistake again. She has laid 3 clutches of eggs anywhere from 13 to 20 days apart.

You need to provide a nest box or area and give it a try. Can't hurt. Since you are using sand (right?) I'd make a big pile of sand in her enclosure. More than 50 lbs. if you can. Use hot water or warm the sand in the oven until you have a slope of sand against a wall that is well packed and 80-85 degrees. Then dig a starter hole not on the bottom but angling down towards the bottom of the enclosure. Make it a little wider than the dragon and maybe 8" deep with a spoon. Just angle down till you hit the floor of your enclosure and then go straight. She will dig along the floor. Best to do all this without her there. Then show her the hole. Put her right in front of it and dig a little with your fingers so she gets the jist. Sounds stupid but some dragons need a little prompting to accept something less than instinct tells them to look for.

Dust all the live food with calcium not the water. You should use calcium w/D3 no phosphorus or vitamin A. RepCal is good.

I highly recommend UVB lighting. You also need to work on the salad thing. But, first things first.

Um gravid means pregnant, yes? I don't see how that's possible...I've had her since she was 4 weeks and she's never been with a male....hmmmm..

gravid does mean pregnant and it is very possible for bearded dragon females to produce a clutch of unfertilized eggs. Though 8 months is young for a dragon to produce a clutch, it isn't unheard of. As BDLvr suggests, creating a lay box of slightly moistened sand or untreated soil or a mix of the two, won't hurt. At worse you may waste a couple bucks for the sand, but it is a much better expenditure than having to take your dragon to a vet to surgically remove eggs that have become stuck inside.

If she is close to laying you should be able to feel oval objects in her stomach if you gently feel around. Don't squeeze them as you don't want to rupture the eggs inside her, just gently feel around for lumps. If you can feel various lumpy objects inside, then she's definitely gravid.

After providing a lay box and she doesn't make any effort to dig or lay eggs, it may be best to take her to a vet. There could be something else wrong that isn't readily apparent without a vet examination and tests. The fact she is still active and alert is a good sign, but sometimes it is best to get things professional checked before she becomes obviously distressed (ie lethargic, sudden loss of weight, etc).
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PHLdyPayne

Unfertile eggs are like deflated squishy grapes. It is very unlikely that you can feel them. Is is often difficult to feel fertile eggs, more likely you can see their outline through the dragons skin.

Seriously.......8 months and never been with a male??? How? How long was gestation? It defies the laws of biology! H-how? Had you had her since she was a baby?

Not doubting you....just...flabbergasted! lol

Human females when they reach puberty, have a period every month and expel the unfertilized egg or eggs, regardless of whether they have had intercourse or not. Some people just reach puberty earlier than others.

Dragons develop eggs not in response to breeding but in the hope of finding a male. Therefore, your dragon will have just as many eggs with or without a male if her body decides to.

Yes, mine has laid 3 clutches totaling 48 eggs starting at 8 months. I agree this is unusual at her age but it happens and you should consider it. As I said, I didn't believe it either when she started acting gravid and wasted $176 at the vet for an ultrasound to find out something I really already knew.

Obviously, I don't know if you dragon is gravid (has eggs) or not but it is my best guess. You have to decide how to handle the no eating problem. But you need to do something.

WOWZA! So are the eggs fertile?

Yes. After the ultrasound I mated her, it is easier for dragons to pass fertile eggs than infertile eggs.

Would not have been otherwise. Komodo Dragons can have fertile eggs without a male but Bearded Dragons cannot.

There are very heavy appetite stimulants.