Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i think it will be very interesting to see if/how enforcement takes place with all this. if it is against the law to collect any animal from the roadway, it seems to me that this very act would have to take place in the presence of LE before enforcement could take place. for example, it would be totally legal to drive around looking for snakes on the road with snake bags, lights, hooks, etc. in your car. if LE stops you, you could even say you are looking for snakes. however, at this point there would be no offense to enforce as no offense (the act of collecting a specimen from the readway) took place in the officer's presence. i dont think they can give a ticket for thinking about doing something or for something that may take place in the future. heck, i cant get arrested for driving around looking for a prostitute, only when i pick one up... (ive cut way down on that by the way).

is Trap, Capture or Kill, or attempt to trap, capture or kill

attempt is where the law gets tricky even for folks out there pursuing wildlife to take pictures, or even just looking at wildlife. That issue will be complicated by the presence of collecting equipment, and animals, even if you just drove off of private property and onto a public road or right of way and stopped to look at or photograph an animal.

Joe, say that i have been herping on a friends property, have a reptile or 2 in the car, tongs, snake hook, pull out onto road going to my motel room, not stopping to photograph or look at anything, and get stopped by LE on the way there , have licenes. No laws have been broken, what is the outcome of this encounter,they cannot ticket us just for possession of reptiles. Thanks Clark

You should be fine under that scenario. Heck, you should even be OK stopping to observe wildlife along the way to your hotel. Having some in-situ shots of the wild caught herps would also be helpful.

Of course an intolerant LE officer that just finished dealing with an obstinant and deceptive commercial road collector could ruin your night. Charges would surely be dismissed, but a it would be a pain.

i really think they would have to actually observe the offense of taking an animal off of the roadway to be able to enforce this law. it is not against the law to have a snake in your car or snake equipment, but i guess we shall see.

I have already had to deal with this situation. I was out one evening less than 30 miles from my home when I was stopped by a TPW officer. He noticed me because I was using a flashlight to look at run over frogs from my window. He stopped me because I was "spotlighting". After I told him what I was doing he told me it was ilegal to look for reptiles on the road. Remember that this was at the beginning of April before it was made illegal. He proceeded to tell me that it was a BIG PROBLEM in West Texas. He then proceeded to write me a ticket for hunting on public land. He never even asked if I had a hunting license. Having just turned 18 I hadn't picked up a license, and I wasnt going to attempt to argue the ticket with him. Anyways to make a long story short, he wrote me the ticket claiming that he could prove intent to collect because I had containers, a hook, and a big pair of tongs. He didn't even notice the dead squirrel tree frog that I had picked up earlier. He then confiscated my almost brand new midwest tongs pro field hook, and my big forceps. I cant believe that these officers dont even know the laws that they enforce. We got a friend of the family who is a lawyer to deal with it. The pretrial is tomorrow, because I'm not going to pay for something when I didnt do anything wrong. I will keep everybody updated on the outcome of the ticket. The lawyer said that he is going to take it to the judge and the judge will most likely just throw it out.

and what was the warden's name? Your lawyer should have a field day with this one.

if you don't know it, it is on your ticket.

Sounds like he should have cited you for hunting without a license. However, since he didn't even ask you to produce a license, he lost that chance.

Were you in a park or some other protected area? If not, he has no case.

I sure hope you get your equipment back.

I'm assuming you have since purchase a hunting license.

this whole intent to hunt thing just makes me chuckle. i dont know what that means. i mean if someone engages in attempted kidnapping, it may mean that they grabbed the person and tried to force them in their car. if the person gets away, its attempted. so to me attempted collecting would mean you grabbed the snake, and before you could secure it, it wriggled out of your hand and got away. the mere experience of having a THOUGHT that you would like to catch a snake as you are driving down the road does not make it an attempt. an attempt is an action specifically related to the actual offense. usually the attempt is one offense level below the actual offense. so if kidnapping is a 2nd degree felony, attempted would be a 3rd degree felony. and if collecting is a class c, there would be no level lower than a class c offense for attempted collecting. maybe im wrong here but either you are caught committing the offense or not. i cant believe you got a ticket for thinking of catching a snake... im sorry that happened to you.

i have some questions, thanks: rockcuts@hotmail.com

Not attempt but conspiracy.. That just sounds cool..

I think you should File a civil suit on this guy and clean him out for an unlawful arrest and taking your property unlawfully

In fact, I will look this up to see if it has changed, but for a long time the TP&W regs on searchs were limited to "game" and he no right to be in your car for anything else anyway.

I say you ruin his life with that lawyer of yours, do not hesitate to pull that civil trigger

would someone please get in touch with Herperboy and get that Warden's name and badge number?