Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi..my pair lol.(2 females) are 4 years old this summer...they have no heat on at this time..but the inside of my reptile room is 80..they make their own choices..in or out..I changed it from last year..(always changing) and have room to get bigger on the exterior..I'm lacking on.. log hollows for the outside but have them scooped out ..just getting them here..lol.just took thes pics..some and bad others ok

thanx for looking

Tibor those ladies really need a male dont ya think?

A.

Dang the bottom one would have fooled me, sure looks like a male?
Especially photo no3

!

I find it odd that you haven’t responded, franks has seen more lace then all of us combined and I have no records (none that I know about)of being wrong at sexing varanids.

So hears my take leave it or keep it, I really think this is a pair, knowing they are 4 years old and you haven gotten any eggs yet, I say your cage needs tuning. In any other circumstance I would have said your problem is support, but I don’t believe you would neglect this aspect of husbandry, not with such prised monitors. From these photos I see an under weigh female and both have unshed skins, the skin alone don’t mean much but combined with your cage it could show some dehydration.

I am not saying this to be an arsh, I know you take care of your monitors, but obviously theirs an energy lose hear, otherwise she would have cycled already with or without a male.

Hopefully this will open up new ideas on your caging.

Hi Jobi,well the 3rd and 4th pic are the same animal..its bigger than the other..but just slightly..no bulges at tail base on it either..want better pics ( after work today) thanks for the time

My mind was made when I got to photo no3, in fact I haven’t looked at 4 and 5 much, once I knew you had a pair I focused on the why?

Don’t waste your time trying to convince me with photos, your monitors aren’t the problem, its your husbandry.

Do like frank did, modify your cages so they can allow your monitors to preserve energy.

Two things, First I do not need to see the tail. Not in the least. Lacies have different heads, Males have long pointed noses. The distance between the nares and the eyes is much greater(as with most larger monitors)(more nasal surfaces to keep track of those females)

Second, Ok, there may be more then two. Females have FEMALE bodies, its wider at the hips, males are wider at the shoulders, unless overweight and yours are nice, not overweight. Overweight males have round bodies(viewed from the top) Again, yours are not overweight, so don't bother to look.

Males tails Taper quickly. Females tail stays the same for a while and may even become bigger a few inches down from the vent.

With yours, all I needed was to see the head shots, they appear male. Thats all I need to see. I could be wrong. As every once in a while you get he/shes, with characteristics of both. Its kinda rare.

ALso Jobi is right, at about one year of age, with halfway decent care, the females will cycle like females. They will get heavy, and lose their appetite, act all funny, look at food and act like they are going to heave. Then a week later, eat like pigs(them girls!) When this occurs here, and it occurs all the time, males or no. I tell my wife, those dang things are either gravid or going to die, hahahahahahahahaha. Males NEVER EVER NEVER EVER do that.

Let me explain that female behavior again, hahahahahaha its so cute. One day you can offer large mice or eq. They will take them with gusto. Three days later, you offer them the same large mice and they will quickly turn their heads like the food is making them sick. Then you can go get some fuzzies and offer them. They will take the fuzzies without hesitation. They will take a pile of fuzzies. I believe the point here is, the females do not have the space to pass the large food items, so they take small food items. ITs all about that simple.

Again, mature females do this all the time. If you have not seen this, then you do not have females. PERIOD. In fact, it does not matter what bulges they have or not. IF they do not cycle, then you do not have females. and I add a PERIOD. TO make a point, if you have a female breeder mouse that did not cycle, what do you care if its female or not, its now monitor food. If your attempting to breed monitors, you look at them the same way. If its not working, who cares what you call it.

Another way to look at it, all my breeding monitors(and there have been hundreds), either look male or they look female. The ones that don't and are mature, do not reproduce.

Lastly Tibor, in all the years you have had lacies, with all the lacies you have have. You had to have both sexes.

Ok..I have had 4 total lace monitors....a real mean one (1st one)..and months later met FR at state line to exchange..$$ for another lace monitor..those turned out female and one is still avaible to me..its 6-7 years by now.
But these two were bought from BS (fr wholesaled them after daytona )at the same time.. and were real small ..month olds at the time..I kept them together for queit a long time till the slightly bigger one would hog food and chase the smaller one off..thought I had a pair.. (Bens invoice said 1.1 we know that can't be true )but at that time..hard to sex at a young age...and waited and talk to DK and went back and forth on e-mails and came to conculsion to be 2 females thats been some time ago..and left it at that..(mywife Robin loves them)..so I've kept them apart for fear of the bigger more aggressive one hurting the other while I'm working..better be safe then sorry. I surly do not over feed..what purpose..I was just trying to maintain good health..they would never refuse food ,I trust the smaller one..it act like its ok with me...but the other wants no part of me..and here's the one that I question Male or female.





last picture is the other.thanx for taking time to read..tibor

You explained male behavior, I listed a whole bunch of female behaviors, did you see any of that? if not, you may not have a female. Cheers

first you agree with jobi..then you change your mind..I think you both don't know..hahaha.. anymore its the same thing here.. both confusing,
head shapes ,tail taper..bulges at tail base..all I know is they are differant..which is which.. is still uncertain. just say you can't tell.

Maybe they're trying to say you have two males.......

I'm not trying to cause trouble..I just showed some pics..they both did not know. what they are.nor did I ask..(my husbandry is off or wrong,why no eggs have been layed..I have had female flavies that did not lay eggs and other did ..I had males that worked and others that did not..to do good at breeding monitors you must have many to weed out non doers).lol
On a better note I see your getting some more monitors.. congrats...I knew you loved the hobby.as do I ..but I keep to myself.I love reptiles thats the problem..lol take care

To do good at breeding anything you must be able to sex them, period!

You’re a poor keeper, not my problem.
Not only cant you sex them, but you don’t have a grip on your friken husbandry.

You’re an idiot for insulting peoples trying to help you. But the biggest idiot is me for trying to help.
Hahaha non doers? I actually make a living at this, you from what I read are aiming to high and beyond your capabilities. hahahaha

I am sorry, but now I see a problem, You think you have to weed out the non doers. You just said that, didn't you.

Thats wrong, the only non doers are the keepers, not the monitors. While there may be a statistical percentage of individuals that physically cannot produce, that percentage is very very very low. Most likely less then one individual out of a thousand.

When you allow some to succeed and some not, that is a direct reflection of your husbandry. From what you said, its borderline. I do have to ask, how many did you hatch. As getting eggs is by far the easist part.

In my case, most all females reproduce successfully, The very few that don't, are a direct result of some mistake I made. As far as I know, I have never had any non-doers, as you call them. But I have ruined a few of them.

I am glad you love the monitors, but respect is also necessary. I hold each monitor as perfect and anything that effects that is my fault, I respect them. When you blame them for your failings, that shows a lack of respect.

That theory of yours was common with colubrids about four decades ago. That just goes to show you how far monitor husbandry has to go. Cheers

First and foremost, it does not matter what I or Jobi think, It does not matter if we are right or wrong. Those are not our monitors. They are YOURS. If they were mine, I would not think, I would know what sex they are.

Its all your problem, and we are only trying to help YOU. If its not a problem, then why are you so concerned. All we say should be meaningless to you.

I am not having a problem, you forgot that. I know which of my lacies are males and which are females. At least for now. Yes, the neonates can upset the golf cart. But mine and YOURS are not neonates.

You say four years old. That is key. You SHOULD know by now.

You go out of the way to post a receipt, stating 1.1., maybe your attack should be with BS.

Earlier, you defended how you fed, yet no one said anything about how you feed. All I said was, your lacies look great(not fat). Why would you defend that?

While I am at asking questions, why would I care or even give a rats rectum what sexes you have? The only reason would be out of being kind, helpful maybe, a friend???? Isn't this what we are suppose to do on this forum? Jobi or I, do not get anything out of your lacies. So don't turn the tables of us. Which is a common problem on this forum, people attack those trying to share/help.

So while your accusing me of not knowing, Once you told me face to face, you are better at this then I. So why do you have to ask ME? Which really confused me, as I had no idea why you said that. You also said, you can make more money at this then I. Again, I have no idea why you would say such a thing or how you would know. Those blurbs(statements) were totally out of context to our conversations. (hard to be friends with statements like that tossed in your face)

Why I bring this up is, Your the one who cannot sex them. Your the one, who after four years cannot tell what sexes you have. Your the one with the monitors in question.

That makes your previous statements to me, sort of in error. Sir, you have purchased all manner of varanus species and have not had much success with any of them. Again, that makes your statements off and wrong.

So, its hard to be your friend(from your above statements) its hard to help/share with you. All for the same reasons, you attack those trying to help you.

And because I am such a bonehead, I will say(still trying to help), If in four years, you have not had a female swell up and get all stupid acting(what they do when they cycle), then I imagine you do not have a female. Or at least not a working female or it would have been working already. Of course, you could be offering weak unsupportive husbandry and it will just take more of time. But how would I know that? As in, you may just be slow, hey, theres nothing wrong with that as long as you get there. Good luck and Cheers

ps, that will teach me for trying to help you.

Tibor see the good things about it.

First photo no3 is male, excellent forget about him.
Your other to me looks like a female based on tail morphology, in any case this animal is your focus point.

Hear are the options followed by a diagnosis and possible cure.

First option; it’s a subordinate male? Could be but the tail would still be bigger.
Second option; it’s a female who been dominated over resources? The symptoms affects behaviour, feeding, heating.

The cause; animals witch have been housed together without proper support, this leads to a dominant animal bullying the other for food , shelter, heat, water and space, this unhealthy relation keep going as long as they have eye contact even if not in the same cage.

How to fix; this is not an easy thing to fix, it’s a slow rehabilitation process, similar to any abusive relationships in humans, it deal with emotions self esteem and mental health.

It’s the pyramidal back of your female that led me to this conclusion, she has the physiological characteristics of a female who just nested, how can you not see this?

As stated before, we are only trying to help you, I have no personal involvement in this situation, clearly you are at fault not the monitors.