Reptile & Amphibian Forums

do you think it is for pet stores to sell wild-caught species, specifically asian turtles that were probably bought for pennies off of a soup market?

I ask because last week I started working at PetCo. The week before last I got mad at the manager for the horrible state of her reptiles, so she asked if I needed a job. Anyway, yesterday the store recieved 2 Malayan Box Turtles in a shipment and I am furious about it because there is no way they are captive hatched and in a weird kind of way the store is supporting the soup market and the depletion of wild populations. I know most people don't get as passionate about turtle conservation as I do, and I was just wondering if I was crazy. Any ideas you have about trying to get my boss to see my side of the problem would be great as well. I am trying to figure out how I can get my point across without getting arrested

You could check with the state agriculture dept and make sure they have a permit for this.

Cindy

Shutup and do your job, you can't save the world.

None of us here may not be able to save the world but we can try . And we can educate along the way .

Kevin
NAROA

but if more people spoke up for the parts they loved, instead of shutting up and doing their jobs, then the things we all enjoy (in this case, herps) will last a little longer.

You can send a letter to www.planetfeedback.com to put in your complaint to Petco. There are many people out there trying to educate the public to the plight of wild-caught turtles and tortoises, so you are not alone. There are many people trying to get Petco to stop the sale of wild-caught animals and those that show up in adoption all the time. You can also contact your regional manager or CACC.

I would be interested in learning from which vendors Petco gets their animals. They also sell wild-caught lizards such as cone-headed lizards. Feel free to e-mail off-list.

Katrina

I'm not an expert on turtles, but I presume that Malaysian Box turtles are endangered. Are there Federal restrictions on the import, selling, or owning of these turtles?

If there are regulations being violated here, at either local, state, federal, or international levels, I would report it if I were you. It might cost you your job, but I personally would not want to work for a company or individual that doesn't adhere to the rules (whether they agree with them or not) . And I especially would not want to work for a place that doesn't have the best interests of the animals themselves in mind.
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MichaelB

Well the Malaysian or Soueast Asian Box Turtle (Cuora amboinensis) is not currently listed on any CITES Appendix (www.cites.org/eng/append/latest_appendices.shtml) so it is not illegal to trade or sell the species.

With that being said you can promote change from within. I would dissuade people from purchasing the animal and try and promote any captive specimens that you have. It's simple economics. If they don't sell many of these animals they won't keep ordering them. I would also see if you could help with the ordering. I believe that each PetCo has control over their own ordering when it comes to herps (please correct me if I'm wrong). Try and order animals that you know are captive bred (or call the wholesaler and find out). If you can not stop your store from selling these animals you can still help keep them in proper conditions and make sure they are going to responsible owners. Sometimes in life you just have to choose the lesser evil to try and do the greater good.

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A.J. Sokolik
asokolik@wnyherp.org
Western New York Herpetological Society

>>Well the Malaysian or Soueast Asian Box Turtle (Cuora amboinensis) is not currently listed on any CITES Appendix (www.cites.org/eng/append/latest_appendices.shtml) so it is not illegal to trade or sell the species.

That is incorrect. They are currently listed in Appendix II. The entire genus Cuora is currently appendix II with a proposal to move it to appendix I.

T.B

>>>>Well the Malaysian or Soueast Asian Box Turtle (Cuora amboinensis) is not currently listed on any CITES Appendix (www.cites.org/eng/append/latest_appendices.shtml) so it is not illegal to trade or sell the species.
>>
>>That is incorrect. They are currently listed in Appendix II. The entire genus Cuora is currently appendix II with a proposal to move it to appendix I.
>>
>>T.B

Whoops, I must of missed it when looking on the list. There are unfortunately far too many species that humans have forced on the list.

Either way, CITES II only means trade is restricted, not banned and is therefore currently allowed and still legal. I would still suggest fisherk2 to try to work from the inside and force change from within PetCo.
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A.J. Sokolik
asokolik@wnyherp.org
Western New York Herpetological Society

poor mistreated animals out of pity............how many times have we discussed this about places like Petco and others to hear about someone on this forum will purchase these animals just to get them out of that/those stores. ( insert BLEEDING HEARTS here please ) ? This will not work to end the supply and demand because it racks up as a SALE to that pet store and possibly to the head office/mother company and logged as another purchase ! PERIOD ! Wholesalers ? Try some Florida reptile wholesalers in which I am not going to give names here but with a little investigation...anyone should be able to find them. Will it make a diff. Probably not because if there is a supply and demand ( oh how many times have I said that here on past post ) there wouldn't be a market. And maybe it is not up to every individial Petco to order what sells. There is the MOTHER company that either mass buys and ships ( like Wal-Mart ) or it is suggested or what sells in one or more demographic area relating to all demographic areas ( maybe ) .

CHAMBO ( the facts and number guy )

I am pretty sure the manager of Pet Co does not have control over which animals he/she carries. You will have to go much higher to get your point across. I agree that wild caught animals should not be sold in most cases but I do know that Pet Co only allows its stores to purchase from certain places (not sure why but it has to do with certain rules and corporate things) and that the stores are required to carry certain animals and have no say in the matter. I know a manager of a pet co that breeds all kinds of birds and yet pet co won't buy his birds because he is a single person and not a big company. So start with your manager to get her on the same page as you and then go higher, but one person against a whole corporation is difficult. And remember, pet co doesnt specialize in reptiles and has a hard time getting good help, so educating rather than criticizing goes a long way.

Actually, when it comes to some animals, managers do have a say on what animals they DON'T sell. I saw a wild-caught cone-headed lizard in a Petco once, and watched it go down hill over a couple of weeks. I begged the store for the animal, explaining why it would eventually die and that I had an expert from an institution ready to care for it. The regional manager agreed to let me have it, and the store manager said she'd make sure they were never ordered again. Apparently the person in charge of ordering saw a picture and thought it was cool, so he ordered one for the store. I've been into Petco stores that didn't sell iguanas, too, so I know managers have SOME say over what gets ordered.

Katrina

Posted by: prettykitty at Thu Aug 21 22:56:08 2003
I am pretty sure the manager of Pet Co does not have control over which animals he/she carries. You will have to go much higher to get your point across. I agree that wild caught animals should not be sold in most cases but I do know that Pet Co only allows its stores to purchase from certain places (not sure why but it has to do with certain rules and corporate things) and that the stores are required to carry certain animals and have no say in the matter. I know a manager of a pet co that breeds all kinds of birds and yet pet co won't buy his birds because he is a single person and not a big company. So start with your manager to get her on the same page as you and then go higher, but one person against a whole corporation is difficult. And remember, pet co doesnt specialize in reptiles and has a hard time getting good help, so educating rather than criticizing goes a long way.

You could always take your boss out to the parking lot and shoot em, but depending on what state you live in you might go to jail. I think you did the right thing by just posting this ad. I had no idea that pet co sold wild animals. When I read your complaint, it disgussed me to think that such a commercial company would sell wild cought. I think the only time it is acceptable to take an animal out of the wild, is to reproduce that animal in captivity. This should be done by a true professional who knows something about what they are doing. With all the captive breeding going on in the world, there is not much reason to take these animals out of there homes. Im glad you work at petco and see the problem with wild caught. With time maybe more people like you will start working in these major pet markets. Thanks for your post and I will give my petco hell.