Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I didn't get photos because the plants in their new enclosure have grown out so well that it's like a jungle in there and I couldn’t get the camera to get focused on her and not the plants above her.

I left her at around 10pm, she was still digging (that's so interesting to watch how they scoop out the dirt and then put it outside the hole with their back feet). This morning, she was in her water dish soaking/cleaning up - she had covered up the area where she had dug down to lay (I assume from her behavior) and patted it down nicely.

I've only ever had a male, so this is my first time with a female or breeding. She just wolfed down ten big, fat earthworms and two huge strawberries - guess she was hungry after all that work yesterday/last night.

I am someone who rescues and never breeds, so I actually don't want babies. I don't have room to keep them myself and don't want to contribute to the pet trade (this isn't a slam on anyone here - just my own personal preference/ethics). I take my bird's eggs out before they have a chance to hatch and replace them with wood eggs. I notice most people seem to take their turtles eggs out and incubate them to ensure that they hatch and then they can care for the hatchlings correctly, too. If I leave the eggs in there will they hatch for certain, or is it unlikely they will do so on their own? My male is in his mid-late 30s, so is there a chance he's shooting blanks at this age and the eggs aren't fertile? Petal is about 12 years old, as far as I can tell (I've only had her just under a year).

Thanks in advance form those with breeding experience for your advice and assistance.

Anything special I need to do for my female - or male, for that matter - during this time? These are two, three-toed box turtles in out outdoor enclosure.

Kasie

ha ha - I meant Laid, not Paid. That's funny. Excuse me for the type-o!

"If I leave the eggs in there will they hatch for certain, or is it unlikely they will do so on their own?"

Nothing is certain. If you are sure that you do NOT want eggs or hatchlings, then eliminate all doubt by removing the eggs from the nest and destroying them.

"My male is in his mid-late 30s, so is there a chance he's shooting blanks at this age and the eggs aren't fertile?"

30 years is comparatively young for a box turtle. Box turtles do not become 'reproductively senile': in other words, an 80 year old box turtle is just as capable of reproducing successfully as a younger one would be.

"Anything special I need to do for my female - or male, for that matter - during this time?"

Just make sure that they have a varied diet, access to fresh water, etc., etc. If you do not want hatchlings in the future, you may want to consider housing the turtles separately to prevent them from breeding. Your female will be capable of storing sperm for several years, so even if you separate the pair tomorrow, she may well lay fertile, viable eggs for the next 4 years or so...

Thanks. I will take them out, destroy and compost them today.

Good to know that they are virile for their lifespan; interesting, too. Most animals tend to become less virile in their later years; so that's pretty interesting about turtles' reproductive status/abilities not changing as they age.

I know that they store eggs; these eggs might even be from the result of previous "encounters" in her former home.

I won't be housing them separately unless he becomes a problem for her; so far he's friendly and they do mate, but she has not been harassed and he's not been at all aggressive with her - he is able to chill and just hang-out with her on occasion. I am very attentive, and this will be my mode of birth control. I check on them about 4-5 times a day; always wondering what they are up to. I'm quite a pestering caretaker, always watching them, wondering how/what they are doing and checking on them all the time.

The enclosure is only a few months old at this point. I planted it with a bunch of edibles. I thought they would destroy about half of them from my previous experience with plants and turtles - but they have only destroyed a few plants and they have grown like crazy! They are enjoying eating from their garden; which is really fun to watch. I was so excited when I saw them chow down on their first enclosure grown, on the vine, strawberries. They seem to love how well planted it is, too. The plants are getting smashed when I close the lid at night though - so I might have to build it up a bit higher. Everything I planted was only to grow 2-2.5 feet high - which is about how high the enclosure is, but I think I have to build it up another foot or so or just live with smashed plants.

Kasie

If it was me I would take the eggs out and transplant them to a park or other area were they would stand a chance of hatching and living a normal life. With road kills the turtles need all the help they can get. You could also bring the eggs inside to hatch. And as soon as they hatch take them out and let them go. If you leave the eggs in the pen to hatch, even if they do hatch they would be real hard to find. (Especially if you have an oversize pen like I have).
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Jack

If you like your box turtles so much that you spent time to build a nice pen like that. Why would you KILL the eggs. Let them hatch and let them go!!! Give them to a school so that a child might become intersted in reptiles and want to save them like we all do!!!!

Release would only be appropriate if the parents both came from the area in which the young would be released.

Giving the hatchlings away is a wonderful idea. I give some away every year. I like to think that every captive produced animal that I give away is one less taken as a pet from the wild. Also, I now know several 8-10 year olds that are absolutely gaga over turtles because I gave one to their parents on their behalf...future Herpetologists maybe?

Given to a good friend last year...

Adorable - and he/she looks so perfect and healthy, too! I've always felt that puppies are the cutest infant animals on the planet, but man, tiny turtles are right up there - they're so freaking cute! I love seeing photos of them. Simply adorable.

It's because I love them so much that I am considering any possible future turtles' lives of 60 years, and all the consequences involved with allowing eggs to reach maturity/hatch. If I cannot care for them myself, then I do not want to contribute to the pet trade (I've worked in veterinary care and rescue for too long). That's my own personal choice and opinion; like I said in the original post, I know many people on this board are involved in the trade, and I am making no judgments about this - to each their own.

For me, personally, I could not be a part of something my animals have all come out of and ended up in rescue/homeless/facing euthanasia from; everyone here has their tales of woe from mistreatment/abuse to simply being unwanted. Too many turtles end up sick/dead after years of suffering from incorrect/improper care, or in rescue after they are no longer wanted (and also after improper care), or going from home to home to home over the years, which I find is too stressful for achieving optimal wellness, even if the care is correct for the species in each home (unlikely). How many people do you know that keep turtles with the correct habitat and husbandry for the entire lifespan of their animals? Put them in their wills and make arrangements for them after they are no longer able to care for them? Not very many. I'm sure the people on this board are exceptional in their commitment to their turtles - but, sadly, this is uncommon.

My box turtles (3-toed) are not native in Northern-CA. It would be irresponsible to release them here. If I lived somewhere where they are native, I would be more than happy to move the eggs to a suitable location in the wild, or to raise the babies to the point where they could be responsibly released into the wild. This would be ideal with wild populations on the decline in many places. I would love to do it, but it's not possible where I live. If anyone knows of a reputable native population program that will take eggs for eventual release to the wild; do let me know!

When eggs are 1-day old you have no idea if they are even fertile! They are certainly not developed enough to be considered "babies" - not to me anyway - but I'm not going to get into a discussion about this (unborn rights, abortion, etc.), as I feel it is completely off-topic and far too emotional and inflammatory a topic of discussion. Removing the eggs at this stage is the most humane way, IMO, to manage my own turtle (and bird) populations. You may make other decisions for the animals under your care - and that's fine. I completely respect your carefully considered choices to ensure you are making responsible short-term decisions for the long-term consequences associated, with your own turtles.

Destroying eggs at this stage is much like removing chicken eggs to eat; the difference is the turtles are not brooding (and unlike birds do not care for their young), so I feel it's probably less stressful on the adult turtles to have their eggs removed from the nest. I don't eat eggs, but it's not killing anything at this point, IMO. Allowing them to hatch and then giving them away/selling them, the truth is, I probably am killing them that way - it's just going to take longer for them to die after years of suffering. I could only give offspring my own turtles produced to someone I knew would be responsible for that turtle for the next 60 years, and was totally committed to providing correct habitat and care, and if not, then to return the turtle to me. And I'd want to stay in touch for the life of the animal to make sure these conditions were being met. If I had to room to keep more than two turtles, I would allow for whatever number I could handle to reach maturity/hatch (if they are even fertile, which we don't know). But I do not. I live in a dense urban environment, where very few people even have yards at all - two turtles is the most my tiny yard can comfortably and properly handle.

Kasie

I still say we must save the world one child at a time. In my state(oklahoma) it is a sport to runover box turtles on the road. When I drive to work every day I pass at least ten fresh KILLS on the road. If I see a box turtle I will stop to help it make it across the road but many times the cars behind me will go out of their way to run over them. We need to get our children interested in these wonderful animals so that maybe they will go out of their way to not run over them. That's all I was trying to say.

"Allowing them to hatch and then giving them away/selling them, the truth is, I probably am killing them that way - it's just going to take longer for them to die after years of suffering. I could only give offspring my own turtles produced to someone I knew would be responsible for that turtle for the next 60 years, and was totally committed to providing correct habitat and care, and if not, then to return the turtle to me. And I'd want to stay in touch for the life of the animal to make sure these conditions were being met."

Wow. I don't think I'd want to get out of bed in the morning and take a chance on stubbing my toe if I needed those kinds of guarantees before I'd do anything that had any risk of having a bad outcome somewhere out there in the future. No sane person with that kind of expectations would ever think about having a child. There are too many things that could go wrong. What if I get hit by a bus next week? Who will take care of my cats?

I actually have no problem with destroying the eggs, but that's a serious doomsday outlook you got there.