Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First off can you post pictures of
1. A newborn litter of F1 or F2 T Pos. blonde albino's that clearly shows the difference between the blonde albino's and the normals. Something to prove they are simple recessive.
2. A close up pic of the eye of a blonde albino and a normal sibling together.
3. Any other pictures of the translucide tounge. I would love to see more than one.
4. More adult T Pos. blonde albino's pic's
5. A T Pos. blonde albino photo gallery would be great. Let me know if there is one.

A few questions
1. Do you think there is other T Pos. albino lines out there that breeders don't know they have?
2. Are the eyes of your line different in ANY way from their normal littermates? If yes, do you have a pic to prove it?
3. Why do you think people are sceptical of your line but not VIP's T Pos., Paradigm's, or Prodigy's?
4. Once you say "black is replaced with brown and lavender." and you've also said "Grey lavender, no black, just like they were as babies." Do baby T Pos. blonde albino's have black scales? Yes or No.
5. Is it possible the snake on the right of this pic dmexotics.com/images_2005/43.jpg has lavender colors? Does is have less black on the tail than your line?
6. Do you have any idea what you will be asking for babies? Have you sold one yet?

These are the 5 reasons you think they are T Pos. Albino's:
1. All the T blond albinos have pink tranlucide tongue
-Please post more pics to prove this.
2. Black is replaced by lavender brown (it is even more obvious on adults)
-If they start with black scales, how can they be T Pos. albino's?
3. They don't darkened with age
-Hardly a reason to believe they are T Pos. albino's.
4. develope a special light yellow caramel color with age.
-So do many lines of pastel boas. Once again, hardly a reason to believe they are T Pos. albino's.
5. They are proved to be simple recessive.
-You have not shown the proof yet.

The pic that edkim posted of the VIP line does represent what they look like after only a few generations. Keep in mind I don't own a VIP T Pos. albino. I would love to, but I don't. I have nothing to defend or gain here. I am planning on getting a paradigm. I personally don't think it's fair you knock The VIP line for the color of the adults by saying "The “blond albinos are not darkening like” normal” boas, because they don’t devellope dark melanine with age, like the othe T positive stain." when you really haven't proven you have anything the boa community would consider a T Pos albino. Just because you think the black scales on your baby boas are turning brown and lavender, doesn't mean they are T Positive. Are they slowly becoming a T Pos.? Isn't it possible the black scales are just fading a bit? Many pastel lines have very little black and keep a very light color you could call a "Special Light Yellow Carmel Color." Please prove your line is simple recessive and not just varying degrees of speckling and pastel colors. I would really love for you to prove me wrong here. I want to believe you. But I also don't want anyone with a beautiful pastel to claim it's T Pos. because it keeps a light color and charge $10,000 for an animal that is just a beautiful pastel. I would love to know if other breeders and hobbiest would add this line to the list of "proven" T Pos. albinos? Like I said before, doesn't it matter what you call a snake? Please understand I think you have three amazing projects that I am jelious of, but I'm still having a hard time considering those as T Pos. albino's, and I don't think I'm the only one.
Michael Burton

Here are the reasons Gabor gives for calling them T Pos. albino's and some pictures he posted.
"So, we call them T+ albinos not hypomelanistic because : reduction of black pigmentation, brown/lavender/orange body colors, lavender/purple tongues, red eyes (only with a special light, normally black), lack of black on the snake shed, recessive trial... Hypo boas look like that. VPI Caramel, boawoman caramel, Prodigy, Argentine T+, Nic T+ and our Blond albinos look similar, not the same but they all exibit the details that i mentioned before"

1. They do have black pigmentation. 2. They only have red eyes with spcial light (maybe a flash). 3. The lack of black on a shed skin proves nothing. Especially not a new line of T Pos. albino's.

The first pic is a blonde albino Gabor posted, the tounge is neither pink or translucide. Can you explain that? Last is what he calls zigzig blonde albino's. I really am having a hard time seeing the T Pos albino resemblance. I am not trying to say you don't have an amazing project. They are absolutley stunning boas and obviuously genetic. Please help me understand.
Michael Burton

are you trying so hard to disprove this line? I can tell you right now my VPI t pos looks exactly like the one in the pix that Gabor posted. The one with the head shot and purple tongue is a dead ringer for mine. If you look close in the picture the head markings are a brownish color which looks just like mine also. Now I know the one's Zenzinias posted with all the color do not look like a t pos from the pictures but we can't see them in person. Kinda like when jungles first came out and people would show litter pix. A LOT of people replied and asked how can you tell they're jungles I don't see a difference? The breeders big and small would reply, "if you had them right in front of you, you'd have no problem picking them out but you can't tell from the pix". I have seen litter pix from this line and you can definitely tell the difference in the visuals and the normals. At the same time they weren't as refined as zenzinias with all that color.

Your example of dm's pix of Larry K.'s pastels. I can see where you were going but they do not have the gray trim in the tail saddles like baby t's do. If you look at the tail pix zenzs posted you can see the gray outline in one of the tails. They do grow out of that and the red eyes. My t+ had the gray as a baby and you could kinda tell the eyes were red but can't really anymore. Like I said below, Linda H. has a couple t pos from Tracy and she'll even tell you hers don't have red eyes so are mine and hers not t pos??? Like you I have nothing to gain from defending the line as I don't have one but I do know that if the VPI line are considered t pos and the boawoman hypo/carmels and the "PRODIGY" then the line zenzs and others in the UK I know who have them are also.

I think the main problem is the fact they have so much color that it hides some of the obvious t pos traits. If it were one with less color like the one's Gabor posted then it would be more obvious. TRUST ME!LoL

As far as the Zig Zag name goes. From the pix i've seen of this line, a lot of the animals hets and visuals have some degree of tail striping or abberant patterns. Which over in the UK/Europe etc. they call it Zig Zags. Us in the states use different names like Abberant,striping etc.. Two different continents two different ways to describe abberant patterns. Same with the tongue colors, to us it looks purple to them pink.

I still love you Michael(in a boa friends way!)and now that you live in So.Cal. i'm sure we'll meet at the Anaheim show so I can talk you out of your DH Sharp female over some beers! So, please don't take offense for me trying to defend the UK. line of T pos. and again I HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN IN DEFENDING THEM cause I don't have one.....YET!!!!

Ruben Michel

Good post. I am glad to see someone with first hand experience chime in.
-----
Randall L Turner Jr.
Boas make the world go round.

I have said many positive things about all of zinzinia's litters. and projects over the past couple years. They are all Amazing animals. Hands down one of the best looking collections I've seen. I am not trying to disprove anything. I just don't think it has been proven yet. Show me a picture of a T Pos. blonde albino and a normal sibbling still gooey. After going through old threads I am not the only one who thinks it would be a stretch to call them T Pos. animals. I know I seem like I have a beef because I am straight to the point. Maybe I spent too much time on the debate team. I think they are all easy questions to answer and would help me and many others believe these are what the boa community would consider a T Pos. Albino.
The eyes mean nothing to me. I am just curious if they are differnt in any way to the normal littermates. I believe an animal can be T Pos. Albino and have normal looking eyes. Your T Pos. albino is absolutley amazing. One of my favorites actually and even though it doesn't have red eyes and it has very dark scales it is still clearly a T Pos. boa. I just don't see the T Pos. resemblance and the 5 reasons given just don't hold water for me. If you or anyone can answer any of these questions please chime in. And yes, I am not an expert, I still have a lot to learn. So with that being said help me understand why you think they are T pos. animals. Anyway, Its all good. Your still the man Ruben!! I don't take offence to things said on here and I hope noone else does. I just like a healthy debate. This is the "no spin zone." LOL
Michael Burton

will be answered! 650-714-9077

Here is a picture of my zigzag Blond and a Het. Blond along with Orange Pastel and reverse stripe Nic. I dont want to argue with anybody no longer about T albinos. Free will.

-----
Gabor Kaminski

that second picture is just the type of picture i was talking about.

beautiful animal.

Are you saying the T Pos. blonde albino's came from the zig zag line. If so, yes that is a proven line. I thought you said this was something new. Please correct me here. Awesome shot.
Michael Burton

Michael

One of the fist snakes i received a few years ago was very abberant/striped. I called it zigzag. Some of the other snakes were more or less striped/abberant eiter. Me and my friend sold a couple of them to France (Zenzinia) and UK (Chriss Gillam) and others... In meantime they proved to be recessive and we finally worked it out that they are T albinos. It wansnt easy. Anyway, this year when i had many answears about these snakes i came up with an idea to call them Blond albinos and the stiped ones zigzag blond albinos. My friedns agreed that its a good name... So, these are the same snakes.

Take care
-----
Gabor Kaminski

I have a few hets & visuals from the Zigzag line & have produced litters in 2005 & 2006. When seen in person the difference is quite distinctive.

Heres a photo of a het with a visual.

And heres a poss het with a visual.....still gooey!

Marc Norrie
Selective Bred Reptiles

www.selectivebred.com

have one here to look at whenever I want it's easier for me to acknowledge what these guys are showing as t pos's. I've seen a good number of adults and right when I looked at that 1st pic I could tell it was a t pos adult. I think one of the main issues here is how much color the baby t's have that they are calling the blonde line. It kinda takes away all the obvious t pos markers so it makes it harder to tell it's an actual t pos. Not to mention it's only a picture. I'm sure in person it's way more obvious. I'm speaking as a t pos owner and am only stating my opinion.

Ruben Michel