Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi All. I would like to know which kind of venomous snake is best for a begginer. For instance, snakes that have less potent venom, snakes that are more "docile", sizes, less aggressive, cheaper prices and housing accesories, etc. Anyway, thanks a lot for any help

Do you have any experiance keeping snakes at all??? There is no good "starter hot"..... Thay are all venomous and all have the potential to be dangerous....... Even milder species like copperheads can cause massive tissue damage if you are bitten..... Now on to your questions..... For someone that is just getting into hots, a copper may be a good choice..... They are relitively calm(not tame)and are very easy to care for and they do not attain huge sizes...... Remember, keeping hots is something to think long and hard about before getting into it..... There have been 2 keepers bitten within the last 2 or 3 weeks...... Both were very experianced keepers...... The way I see it is, there are two types of venomous keepers..... The ones who HAVE been bit, and the ones that WILL be bit...... One mistake with a hot snake could very well be your last mistake..... Good luck....
P.S. Go to www.tongs.com and check out the bite pics......

when i first got into "hot" snakes i tarted with copperhead. I did very extensive research before i finally got one. copperheads are fairly easy to maintain in my opinion. but you do not want to let your guard for one second. if you do you will get bit. i dont even try to mess with mine if there is anything that can distract me. you want to keep your attention focused on the snake. this is where most kepers make their mistakes. If you do decide to get a venomous snake do your research. Good luck with whatever you end up with.

Anthony

Yes,I am fully aware of all the handling requirments, laws, precautionary tactics, etc. I've been to just about every website on the subject as well. Theres just something about herps that brings out the worst in people, don't you aggree? I am getting tired of people on these forums acting all mean and bossy when somebody is just asking for advice. But let me ask you this, Gaboonkeeper: If hot snakes are so bad and dangerous and terrible and nobody in their right mind should keep them, then why do you? thanks, and sorry for having to stoop down to your level.

At best you completely misunderstood GaboonKeeper's message. If a couple mild warnings like that get you all riled up, I can see why you have trouble with the internet.

He wasn't giving you a hard time. You asked about a good starter hot in a message that gave no clue whether you had any experience or knowledge at all, so the reasonable thing for anyone answering your question is to make sure you understand what you're getting into. If you do, that's great, but you didn't let anyone know that...

Deep breath...
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Larry D. Fishel
Side effects may include paralysis
and death but are generally mild.

I, in no way said no one in their right mind should keep them..... I was just giving you some things to think about before you get into it...... These are things I thought about over and over before I started to keep them...... Did I tell you you should not buy a hot???? No.... I gave you a short answer to your question and I had a question of my own to ask you..... That same "starter hot" question comes up alot and the answers are pretty much the same..... This tells me something that I did not get into on my first reply.... You obviously did not do too much research on the subject..... You would have found 100 post just like this one.....The reason I keep these snakes.... Like you, I love these creatures..... I am into the captive breeding of these reptiles and the conservation of these reptiles..... I like to be able to think I do my part in keeping the wild populations from being wiped out from their natural environment..... Just remember what I said about being bitten..... That is the reality of keeping these animals...... Even the best of hot keepers have been nailed...... I my self have never been tagged but I never for one second think that it cant happen..... We can all do what we can to be safe but even with the best tools and skills you can never be 100% sure you wont get hit...... These snakes are unpredictable and some will not think twice about bitting you if it gets the slightest chance...... And some will give no warning...... The only people that get mad at seeing post like I wrote are people that are not 100% sure they want to keep hots..... If you are not 100% sure then you are not ready...... And if someone does not keep hots because I told them the reality of keeping them, then I did my good deed for the day..... Good luck....
Gregg

Have someone teach you how to safely handle, it's better for you, as well as the snake. Get a permit if required. Copperhead's are good beginner snakes, however, just because they aren't as toxic as a rattlesnake or cobra DOES NOT mean it isn't capable of inflicting a dangerous bite. You can NEVER become complacent around these animals. As far as getting cheaper housing or equipment, keeping venomous snakes is an expensive hobby, if you can't afford to properly house and feed the snakes, you shouldn't own them. You should NEVER shortchange the snakes well being just for the sake of keeping a hot snake. If one is going to keep ANY animal, you should be able to provide it with the same type of environment that it would have in the wild, if not, it's not fair to the animal. Remember, animals don't have a choice of who their owner's are, but we do have a choice of whether or not we are capable of PROVIDING for an animal.
Good luck.

.

Yeah....... I'm an amateur, not an idiot.

I do not believe in starter snakes. I believe that if you are interested in the keeping of any manner of animal, the responsible thing to do is to learn as much as it is possible to know about the husbandry and behavior of the animal before acquiring one. In the case of venomous snake keeping, there is an additional burden associated with the prospect of the keeping. There is an element of danger to yourself and others that much be minimized as much as possible through learning additional handling skills, and caging design and application that is not required of keepers of less potentially dangerous animals.

While I would not go on record as suggesting that you get a mamba, gaboon viper or other very potentially lethal snake, what I would recommend is that you ask yourself a few soul searching questions:
1) Why do you want to get the animal?
2) What species is it that you really have a passion to keep?

If you are interested in the animals to impress your friends, then I would suggest getting in touch with one of the venomoid sellers...

If you answered that you have a desire to work with some of the most interesting reptiles on the face of the planet, then keep reading....

Pick a species that you desire to keep. Read everything you can about that species and related species to get an idea of what it takes in order to keep them healthy and thriving. Build or buy secure caging. If you build or buy shift caging then your exposure to the animal is minimized and the potential to be bitten is as well... Find someone whom you respect, who also keeps the species you desire, and get them to show you how to use the venomous snake handling tools that will be your hands while interacting with the animal. Practice with hooks, tongs and hemostats until they become extensions of your own body.

When your mento feels your ready, seek out the animals you have worked so hard to get and buy them from a reputable breeder. Captive bred animals are the ONLY way to go when starting out. They will not come as cheaply as imports or native wild caught animals, but they will also not come with the parasites and difficulties that you'll run into with wild caught stock. Nothing is more disheartening than to have your hard worked for "first" venomous starve itself to death because it was stressed out by the capture and sunsequent treatment at some holding facility....

Here are some suggestions I would have for you if you haven't quite made up your mind. If you like elapid-like snakes... consider a False Water Cobra. They're rear-fanged, mildly venomous, and they're widely available from folks like The Great Valley Serpentarium.... who it also just so happens breeds my second choice... Mangrove snakes.... Both of these species are reqarding to work with and they are hardy captives.

For something slightly more viperine... One of the five odd Agkistrodon contortrix (your copperhead) ssp... I like Southern Copperheads a lot... they're neat little snakes that have a lot of personality. I also happen to like Cottonmouths. As far as I can tell, the Cottonmouth is the most overlooked venomous snake in the US.... they are generally tractible animals that rarely refuse a meal, and captive bred animals are stunning when compared to their wild caught, mud stained, counterparts. Best of all, you can usually get a captive bred baby copperhead or cottonmouth for five or ten dollars if you ask around.

My next suggestions, moving up to rattlesnakes would be Dusky pygmy rattlers... I'd opt for a well started captive bred baby... or maybe a Western Massasauga... I have a pair myself, and they're neat little rattlesnakes. I also like Great Basin Rattlesnakes (Crotalus lutosus), and Prairie rattlesnakes (C. viridis).... both are easy to look after, with cagine requirements bordering on the miniature, and they are "real" rattlesnakes in every sense of the word....

I would stay away from exotics until you get antivenom sotres of your own. I would also recommend reading and learning everything you can about bite management. In the event you are bitten, you will need to be able to make good decisions about your own treatment.....

Last but not least.... develop a network of people from whom you can learn the right ways to do things. Associate with people who you can trust and who you are comfortable with... because they're the kind of people you would like to be, not because they have cool snakes.

Best of luck in whatever it is that you choose to do. If you live anywhere me in Central Virginia, I'll be happy to do anything I can to get you started safely....

Tom Townsend
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"Seek first to understand, then to be understood"

What I was merely asking is when you guys started getting into hots, which ones did you get first, and I didn't say I was going to buy cheap equipment, I was just asking what the average price would be for standard stuff, e.g hooks, bags, housing, food, extractors, etc. Anyway, I thank you all for the help you could give me, and to all those who were adament on pointing out my experience level, nuts to you. Of course to those who the latter applies too, you'll come up with something like "His attitude proves he is to immature to keep hot snakes", but let me say this: Snakes are one this most misunderstood creatures on the planet. People think all snakes are bad, and we have to change that. If more people get into them then they can better their own understanding of these creatures, and help the world to as well. I'm not saying that you should just hop into it without researching or taking precautions, after all, snakes aren't for everyone. But all of you guys who are into hot snakes started out somewhere and all I wanted to know is how you guys started. And as for the earlier statement "there are two kinds of snake keepers, those that have been bitten, and those that will be bitten" That isn't entirely true. I know people who have been keeping hots for 20 years and never been bitten. Have any of you guys been bitten? Anyway, Keep an open mind. Letting more people into the hobby is supposed to be what you're all about as herpers. Thanks

If you know people who have been keeping hots for 20 years, why ask here for advice? Obviously you have a great source of information already.

As for the "attitude" you infer here, I think you read it incorrectly. It is not attitude, it is concern. People are concerned about someone who appears to be inexperienced looking to get into hots, and they are concerned about a "newbie" getting bitten, which makes for great newspaper stories and fuels lagislative action which may restrict experienced keepers ability to continue to legally keep their animals.

You asked for advice and I gave you an honest opinion of what I'd recommend for someone who is interested in keeping venomous snakes. I don't recall lecturing, pontificating or otherwise saying anything that I felt was negative in any way. I offered HELP to yo in any way I am able to provide it, yet you respond to me like this?

Please tell me that you responded to someone else's message in the wrong place....

I can't imagine what you could possibly have found to be offensive in what I wrote.... I guess you just can't please anyone these days.

Sheesh.....
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"Seek first to understand, then to be understood"

i agree with blackwater totally on his starter snake philosophy. my starter snake was a baby east african gaboon viper floowed a week later by a baby rhino viper. after about a year of keeping and learning the nuances of handling bitis i mover to a 2year old gaboon male, he was reasonably placid but had his bad hair days, then next was an adult male rhino viper who really tested me to this day he is the meanest snake i have. now 4 years later i have a nice collection of gaboons rhinos puffs and gaboon rhino crosses. soon i will be getting some cb crotalus durissus terrificus and maybe a bushmaster$$$$$. if i were you i would choose a ground dwelling viper that is small and reasonably easy to keep for a first hot. dont get yourself in deep water by starting with a cobra or arboreal viper they are for more experienced keepers, dont take that the wrong way i believe everyone will agree with me on that, whatever you choose make sure you do your homework, research until you cant research anymore. also take advantage of your friends that have been keeping hots for 20 years ask them maybe they will let you observe their animals and particpate in handling procedure.

earthmover

i agree with blackwater totally on his starter snake philosophy. my starter snake was a baby east african gaboon viper floowed a week later by a baby rhino viper. after about a year of keeping and learning the nuances of handling bitis i mover to a 2year old gaboon male, he was reasonably placid but had his bad hair days, then next was an adult male rhino viper who really tested me to this day he is the meanest snake i have. now 4 years later i have a nice collection of gaboons rhinos puffs and gaboon rhino crosses. soon i will be getting some cb crotalus durissus terrificus and maybe a bushmaster$$$$$. if i were you i would choose a ground dwelling viper that is small and reasonably easy to keep for a first hot. dont get yourself in deep water by starting with a cobra or arboreal viper they are for more experienced keepers, dont take that the wrong way i believe everyone will agree with me on that, whatever you choose make sure you do your homework, research until you cant research anymore. also take advantage of your friends that have been keeping hots for 20 years ask them maybe they will let you observe their animals and particpate in handling procedure.

earthmover

i agree with blackwater totally on his starter snake philosophy. my starter snake was a baby east african gaboon viper floowed a week later by a baby rhino viper. after about a year of keeping and learning the nuances of handling bitis i mover to a 2year old gaboon male, he was reasonably placid but had his bad hair days, then next was an adult male rhino viper who really tested me to this day he is the meanest snake i have. now 4 years later i have a nice collection of gaboons rhinos puffs and gaboon rhino crosses. soon i will be getting some cb crotalus durissus terrificus and maybe a bushmaster$$$$$. if i were you i would choose a ground dwelling viper that is small and reasonably easy to keep for a first hot. dont get yourself in deep water by starting with a cobra or arboreal viper they are for more experienced keepers, dont take that the wrong way i believe everyone will agree with me on that, whatever you choose make sure you do your homework, research until you cant research anymore. also take advantage of your friends that have been keeping hots for 20 years ask them maybe they will let you observe their animals and particpate in handling procedure.

earthmover

i agree with blackwater totally on his starter snake philosophy. my starter snake was a baby east african gaboon viper floowed a week later by a baby rhino viper. after about a year of keeping and learning the nuances of handling bitis i mover to a 2year old gaboon male, he was reasonably placid but had his bad hair days, then next was an adult male rhino viper who really tested me to this day he is the meanest snake i have. now 4 years later i have a nice collection of gaboons rhinos puffs and gaboon rhino crosses. soon i will be getting some cb crotalus durissus terrificus and maybe a bushmaster$$$$$. if i were you i would choose a ground dwelling viper that is small and reasonably easy to keep for a first hot. dont get yourself in deep water by starting with a cobra or arboreal viper they are for more experienced keepers, dont take that the wrong way i believe everyone will agree with me on that, whatever you choose make sure you do your homework, research until you cant research anymore. also take advantage of your friends that have been keeping hots for 20 years ask them maybe they will let you observe their animals and particpate in handling procedure.

earthmover

... and extremely well written, in an appropriate and non-patronising tone.

If anyone takes offence at it, it certainly isn't your fault.

Cheers,

Wolfgang
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WW

WW Home

For your kind words.

Tom
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"Seek first to understand, then to be understood"

One thing I have allways suggested to herpers interested in keeping "hots". Get yourself a particularly nasty Black racer. Try handling proceedures with it and then count your bites. Then remember that your average elapid or opistoglyph has the potential to be that fast and nasty in a most possibly most perminent fashion (personally, I am not a fan of elapids being kept at home). If you are still up for it, one of the best "beginner snakes is our southern Pygmy rattler. It is small, hardy and agressive...but not as potent as it's cousins..and will reasonably stay put if you don't provoke them. When I have trained new people I have allways prefered using them. Frank

but was 23 years ago and a juvie ( is it not the juvies that are the most ill tempered lol ), and was a crotild. I was lucky oonly took a year to recover 98% of my hand usage. Depending on the species--may have no hand to recover. Is always entertaining to hear a novice pleading for help, them get irritable when alittle well founded construction advice is given. My friend and I use the term loosely, many in this forum while don't know me personally, know my writings. Am I a sage nah leave that for the true mental giants of which I am not. But will say this reject our collective advise at your peril. More importantly the potential for others, to be harmed, like your loved ones, and neighbors is great so be advised -forewarned is forearmed.
Barry