Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone,
This message is more aimed at the crocodile monitor keepers, but any information will be GREATLY appreciated. I have a croc that is still a juvenile, about 11-12 inches svl, and he is not eating too well. I have only had him since last Saturday, so this could be accounted to stress. I am not sure as the guy I got him from said he was a good feeder on mice and turkey. Basking temps read on my temperature gun at around 121-130 degrees. The ambient temp in the cage is 95 on the hot and 80 on the cool. I turn the lights of at night, but I live in Southern California so it stays at about 82 all night. Do any of you croc guys have any tips? I can't think of whats wrong and all I can think of is to ask the experts. I am not a new to this, just need some help. Thanks in advance for any advice!

Also I have not been able to get a straight answer on humidity for this certain monitor. I am using what I have learned for other arboreal monitors but I am not sure as to what I should keep this specific monitor at. Thanks!

I think you should post a picture of it...hopefully its not on deaths bed...,give it a hiding area and mice only skip the turkey...heat and feed them..pretty simple..your hot spot sounds good..keep it away from high traffic area for a while..just my tips.

Ok thanks pictures are in my photobucket here

http://s189.photobucket.com/albums/z40/varanussalvadorii/?action=view¤t=switzerreptilestrade002.jpg

he looks ok ..give him some time..keep the stress level down.( no holding).live small mice is best..he'll turn around for you...best of luck.

One third mid 70s one third mid 80s one third mid 90s!

Sounds like the silliest husbandry advise right? Maybe it is? But maybe not?

This range was the preferred rang of crocs from 4 localities, they all preferred basking lower them 100f and spent most of there time in the mid 80s zone, this regardless of size. I let my hydration go down to about 30% then I hose the enclosures witch bring immediate saturation.

Your temps seem a little on the high side, enough to dehydrate your monitor and cause environmental stress.

If you aren’t disturbing the monitor and all else seems normal, this is your solution.

Most new guinea monitors have evolved in relatively stable conditions with plenty of cover (foliage-canopy) most of new guinea is well hydrated year round, in some parts theirs a brief dry season but nowhere near the conditions many African and Australian monitors endure.

These monitors do well in cages that offer large areas with stable ambient, I do not provide baskings for jobiensis, Doreanus, prasinus and salvadorii anymore. I am not advising you but only sharing how I keep my animals.

Something has gone stupid over the last couple of years. Let me rant a bit. I am the one who brough high basking temps and the use of high temps to the table.

When I explained things, I try to explain the whys and wherefores. Not the temps or RH(relative humidy). But people called this cryptic, as I guess they DO NOT WANT TO THINK, THEY JUST WANT TO KNOW(a number, not the animal)

Its sad to see that I had too much faith in the human ability. They simply are not as smart as they think they are. Or I thought they were.

That keeper and most others have now swung over to TOO MUCH HEAT. WHICH IS AS BAD AS NOT ENOUGH HEAT.

IF YOU FOLKS WOULD LISTEN TO WHAT I WAS SAYING(the cryptic part) you would have learned why.

Let me try again, monitors are generalists, they are behavioral, ALL OF THEM. That makes them EASY. IF you offer choices, they WILL MAKE THEM, you do not have to KNOW anything. THE MONITORS KNOW IT(ITS THEIR JOB). I do not go by the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 deal, but its surely better then all hot or all cold. GIVE THEM A RANGE. A GRADIENT, from much of the cage being cool(seventies) up to the hotspot. Actually What Jobi said IS A GRADIENT, and HES RIGHT. But you do not have to chaulk out the 1/3's in the cage(I can see it now)

The hotspot does not have to be 130F or more, or even 100F, It could be, depending on need. Growing monitors do not HAVE to have high temps, 95F to 110F is great for growing babies. Higher hotspot temps are for specific purposes. And their is no one set temp. It depends on the animals and its needs. That means, size and condition, not what the Frack species it is. (Frack is an expletetive from the future, battlestar galacitica, I believe. It doesn' mean the F work, just something like the F word.)

The Same thing goes for RH. I never measure RH. And their is good reason. They do not use one set degree of RH. MONITORS, ALL FRACKEN SPECIES, are DRY lizards, which means they seek to be dry(dry skinned) at all times. IF they get wet or moist, they seek to dry off. PERIOD. Of course various species use water for various tasks(exploited for purposes of prey)

Because they are reptiles, they need to maintain a balance of body fluids(they're alive for dang sake) In that, they seek about 50% humidity in their SHELTERS. If they get too humid, they seek to dry out, if they get to dry, they seek to hydrate. ITS EASY. EASY I tell yea.

THIS IS ALL MONITOR SPECIES. different species do have different skin types, which allows them to protect their fluid levels, less permeable in desert species, more permeable in tropical forest species. AS IN, desert species are constantly exposed to air dryer then 50% RH. Tropical forest species are not constantly exposed to dry air, THEY ARE EXPOSED TO AIR higher then 50%RH, so they do not develop less permeable skin. In fact, TFS(tropical forest species) have more permeable skin, for the opposite reason. Seasonally they are in need to lower their fliud levels. So they need to dry out. They are not salamanders, they ARE monitors.

Simply put, you can SUCCESSFULLY keep all species in captivity with the EXACT same temps and RH conditions(and I do). YOU do this by offering a RANGE. A FRACKIN range. How simple does it get. DRY to moist(not wet) and cool to hot. END OF that STORY.

THEY DO NOT CHOOSE to be one temp or one RH in nature, OR CAPTIVITY. They work the ranges for their benefit(THATS THEIR LIFE) But, there is one base, their shelters need to be cool, not hot, and 50%rh, not dry or wet. That is all you HAVE to provide. The rest is their love, their life, their living to work. ITS WHAT THEY DO. They move from a base, to hotter or cooler, dryer or more humid, guided by temporary conditions(ITS THEIR LIFE)

That could be the end of the RANT, BUT alas, its not. I want to know, I need to know, WHAT on fracken earth gives you the idea that reptiles are HELPLESS and cannot do anything on their own. WHY do you think their are windup toys and in order for them to perform, you have to wind them up or install batteries(control everything). Monitors are LIVING animals, to live, they do. Their life is the doing. LET THEM DO. OK, I am done. ITS their joy to DO these things, its their life to do these things, LET THEM FRACKEN DO. Fraterackin, muderracken, yosemity samerracken

IF your one of them control freaks, go get a stuffed one, then do whatever you want. Cheers

P.S. Righteous = following the ways of Ja, be cool man, it be alright. (marly)

The rule of third comes from Ansel Adams, no he’s not a herper but a master photographer, peoples around the world could not compos a decent photograph, The rule of third gave them a base to start with.

That’s all it is, a simplified usable temperature gradient, one can customise it in either direction or expand any zone to suit the needs of the monitor.

Not sure if your comment was for me? However I am sure you know they control me not the other way around.

Rgds

My post was "with you" not to you. I agree with you on the gradient. And thirds are better then nothing. If fact, theres nothing wrong with that.

About ansel adams, that is base composition and without question a good starting point. Odd over even, does work with composition.

Maybe monitors are artists???????? They seem to know. Cheers

But those pics, i really really enjoy them. Never had anything wrong(can't be alway's negative) to say about those... Exept my lack of knowledge and place, to lodge them adequate, keep them longer, and to breed them.
Maby someday...
With those, it will always be an enjoyment(for me) to see pics.
Take care!

WHat the heck is the difference between Crocs and Lacies???????? My bet is, I can take a pic of a lacie and tell you its a croc and you would love it???????

U are indeed, a specieist(favors one species over another, for no good reason)

In all reality(the truth) Percentage wise, Crocs put more people in the hospital then all other monitors put together. It does not matter if YOU like them, they are STILL the most dangerous. ITs a matter of fact, not wishes.

Of course, I love croc montiors and was never bitten by one(ok, a one day old croc bite me)

I think your very very naive. I do understand your fear of male lacies, they are characters, they "act" all nasty and such. But in reality, its normally an act. Yes, there are insane individuals of all species. Including ackies and storrs. In my vast experience, the nastist most aggressive monitor I ever saw, was a Storrs.

You talk about young guns, Yet, in order to be a young gun, you need to understand guns. It appears you do not understand the guns. The monitors are the guns and you need understand them. Until you do, you will never be a challange to me. And I love a challange, or I would not keep monitors.

The problem with croc monitors is, THEY ARE VERY SHY and introverted. That is a huge problem, the reason is, they are very easy to frighten. Consider, an animal in fear, IS a dangerous animal, it does not matter what species it is.

So, croc monitors are fearful and have HUGE TEETH. that and only that makes them the most dangerous captive. Oh, couple that with dumb people who cannot keep their hands out of the monitors mouths.

Lacie males are SO easy, of course they charge you, but all you have to do is, smack them on the head and off crying like a little baby they go.(smack them lightly) They are actually no different then any other monitor. They are TESTING you, so you are suppose to pass the test. If you run off crying like a little baby, you flucked the test. The lacies is now dominate OVER YOU. Consider, they do this to everything, eachother, keepers, water bowls, its what all monitors do. Lacies are just good at it. Which means you must not have passed the test.

So the real truth is, Lacies, Croc monitors, all the same, its you that are different. Cheers

First Frank, let me ask you where the hell i talked you about fear from my lace...Few years ago, i been running by a bear so do you think this little runt(Ok, now i know she's was runt) female fear me?

In fact she made me laugh more than fear.
This female was trying me (in is head) everyday, every damn day i had her, but never had enough attitude to show me who's the boss... Maby it's what you refered to "act".
She was running forward and back to try to impress me everytime i was in or around the enclosure but never had enough personnality to push is act. Never had any trust and me, everyday was like the first time she saw a human. No matter if i was alone or with bunch of people. This female was doing only 2 thing in is life... Basking and sleeping. In fact 3, she was also running. Never put any attention to anything new in is enclosure, never put any attention to a new box, new log, new substrate. She was acting like a freaking zombie and it's the reason why i don't like lace. This experience(yes my only experience with lace, so yes i'm inexperienced... But this little experience, i didn't read it... i lived it) is the reason why i don't enjoy laces. Maby i will have some more someday and my point of view will change about them.

Now about crocs... I spend 3 years with those and i learned 1 thing, RESPECT. I respected them every day i had them from day 1 and i never been bit. Crocs knew who i was and never acted the same when my wife or friends where around. My crocs where curious, shy but curious. Everytime i made a changed in the enclosure, they where curious about this, they had life in eyes. It's true, crocs are dangerous. When you know something is dangerous, it's or choice to respect it or trying to push the limits.
Take care!

Hey Justin how was your operation? Sorry I could not make it in time, but I did go to Montreal and picked a nice pair for you, will send you photos later. Or will post them hear, my emails don’t work.

In fact I will call you, I am curious to see if you now have the soprano voice of a castra? Lol

About the subject of this thread, I think lace have way more personality then crocs, they are very different when feeding, one goes ballistic they other is cautious and tactic.
A friend in Japan who keeps crocs and parenty says both are very similar in habits?
Guess we will know soon as they are coming our way, save your pocket changes young panawan, or should I say castrati?

ello my true love...... I'm back home Hahahahha!
My voice still the same but my schnolls(hehehehhe!) are huge and painfull.
Hehe! Yes you can send the pics here my friend.
Talk soon and take care!

The monitors FEAR not yours, and if you do not show some fear from getting close to a wild bear, your insane.

I got within a meter of a brown bear here. I do not freak out, but I think some fear was in order.

Good luck

Sorry my mistake. I tought you where talking about my fear of the monitor.
For the bear story...
My knee was clapping together so maby i had a little fear.
Suddenly, i stop and grab my hatchet (only had a hatchet, camera, pen and note pad)when i realise the bear become closer, little too much. Grab the hatchet, changed my direction and i charged the bear....My hatchet was 12 inch long to remove bark from tree to see if there was any larva, not really helpfull...
At the end of the story, i'm still alive and the bear also.
Only 1 guy believe this story, my partner, he was there.. With is clapping knee.
Take care!