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Eastern Eggs at 106 days

robertbruce Jun 21, 2007 05:27 AM

I currently have 64 live eggs from numerous female Easterns that are in various stages of incubation. I posted photos of the first clutch of 13 eggs a couple months ago (12 are still alive).

This first clutch is now at 106 days, much longer than previous years where the incubation time was typically 96 days. I am using a cooler incubation temperature, and this is undoubtedly the explanantion for at least part of this added time.

For the first half of the incubation, I had the eggs on Scott Foam, a very large pore open cell foam. I had done this to small numbers of eggs in previous years as a test. If there is water at the bottom of the buckets (I use clear food industry buckets) then the eggs will absorb the moisture they need from the air. This only works for the first half of incubation.

For the second half of the incubation, I transferred the eggs to 1:1 vermiculite:water by weight, although for the first time, this year I used deionized water (basically distilled water).

The last month of the incubation is characterized by greatly increased condensation on the inside of the buckets (see my response to Mike Meade's post below). This increased condensation has started, albeit late also, for the first clutch I mentioned. These eggs have been supersaturating the air for maybe three weeks now.

I was worried that they may be dead, but the eggs are all very tight (firm) i.e. under internal pressure (normal, and also a sign that they are alive). None are collapsed, discolored, molding or smelling bad. In years past, just days before hatching the eggs have lost their internal pressure (as felt using my fingers to essentially pinch an egg ever so slightly). My first clutch isn't there yet.

I can't figure out why they are going so long. According to biochemical theory, metabolic rates are usually halved or doubled for every 10 degree C raise or drop in temperature. This works out to 6.5% less incubation time per increased degree C and 7% greater incubation time per decreased degree C. My mean temperature is maybe 24.5 compared to 26.5 in years past, so ten days longer is more than I would expect.

Nothing I can do except stare at the darned eggs. I have other thoughts about why they may be taking longer, but I don't want to write a book here. There is nothing worse than waiting for eggs to hatch that are late.

I was curious if anyone else has had Eastern eggs that took so long. From the looks of it, these eggs are still at least a week from hatching. I will keep everyone posted.

Robert Bruce
robert.bruce@sbcglobal.net (310) 502-6311

Replies (8)

Dann Jun 21, 2007 06:07 AM

Hi Robert,

Yes last year 115 days at 78 degrees.

Dan

Sighthunter Jun 21, 2007 09:45 AM

Robert I know that equation in Spilotes does not work out. My eggs will go longer than the equation predicts. I got nervous and inched up the temp one degree per day for three days and they hatched a few days later with no kinks.


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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

robertbruce Jun 21, 2007 02:44 PM

According to biochemical theory about metabolic rates:

If 26.5C (80F) yields hatching in 95 days

at 25.5C (78F) hatching should be 95 x 1.07 = 102 days

at 24.5C (76F) hatching should be 95 x 1.07 x 1.07 = 109 days

Dan, if your eggs hatched in 115 days at 25.5C then lowering the temperature has a much more profound slowing on development rate than theory would predict. This also agrees with what Bill says below.

Thanks for the info. I just raised my temperature 0.5C to about 26C daytime. I hope I don't have to wait forever.

Robert Bruce
robert.bruce@sbcglobal.net (310) 502-6311

steve fuller Jun 21, 2007 08:57 PM

My earliest clutch of Eastern eggs is now at 121 days. A Texas clutch and two more Eastern clutches came later in March. I've worked at keeping them low to mid 70's. Will continue to wait. These will be the most robust, best feeding hatchlings ever and my heart will soar.

robertbruce Jun 22, 2007 04:15 AM

Hi Steve,

Something from your post leads me to think that this is the lowest incubation temperature you have tried.

OK, if 26.5C (80F) gives us 95 days of incubation

and 25.5C (78F) gives us 115 days of incubation (20% increase in incubation time per one degree Centigrade of temperature decrease)

then 23.5C (74F) which is what I am thinking might be about what you are using will give us:

95 x 1.20 x 1.20 x 1.20 = 164 days of incubation.

Are you sure that at 23.5C the hatchlings will even have enough energy to slit the eggs? It would worry me.

Thanks for the information and I will be interested to know how it works out. At least I don't think anymore that my eggs at 106 days are anything unusual, which is nice to know.

Robert Bruce
robert.bruce@sbcglobal.net (310) 502-6311

Sighthunter Jun 22, 2007 10:47 AM

I have been able to keep eggs alive for 6 months at 55F. The egg will stop developing. I have only done this with Trans Pecos Ratsnakes. But, you Robert, are like me. You just kinda gotta find what makes things tick, huh? LOL. Sacrifice a few in the name of science it always goes farther in the long run.


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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

robertbruce Jun 23, 2007 02:07 AM

The only difference Bill, is that when I sacrifice one or two, it is $1,100 a pop. Costly learning experience. That's what Blacktails are for, as Jeff would say. Problem is, I only have Easterns.

Well, when I learn something the first time, I rarely repeat the mistake, that is for sure.

Robert.

stevep Jun 23, 2007 02:22 PM

Hey Steve

Please email me if you can

spisarchik@hotmail.com

Thanks
Steve

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