Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys, I just had a vet near me run a fecal test from the new Meller's I just got last week, and I got the results back today.... gibberish, why they can't send this over in laymans terms I don't know... but I digress... what I deciphered from the paperwork is "Completed culture results: Proteus Mirabilis & Escherichia Coli" both "4 "... I plan on calling the lab tomorrow for a breakdown, but as far as I know these are bacterium, not parasites so would any of you guys happen to know if this is normal for a chameleon to have or should I take him in for a deworming? (Well, deworming... if he doesn't have parasites, he doesn't have worms, necessarily, right? Oy...)

I heard that if the organisms are not life/health threatening, you can feed it out of them so to speak by keeping a clean habitat and feeding them clean, healthy feeders (but somebody let me know if that's incorrect). I'll be travelling back to FL from NJ shortly, so I don't want to over stress the poor guy with an unnecessary vet trip right before a long road trip if he can wait till i get back to MIA. What an excessively long message, I'm sorry guys, and thanks so much for any info you can send this way!
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"Were the diver to think upon the jaws of the shark, he would never lay hands on the precious pearl."

Proteus mirabilis and escheria coli are bacteria commonly causing urinary tract infections in humans.

Proteus mirabilis...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteus_mirabilis

E. coli...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escherichia_coli
http://medicalcenter.osu.edu/patientcare/healthinformation/diseasesandconditions/infectious/ecoli/

The number 4 tells the level of the bacteria....but I don't know at what level they start to treat either of those.

Yeah, I googled both bacterium before posting also, saw these links... but not much info in the way of effects on repiles/chams (except something about a non eating boa that wasn't even proven...). 4... yeah, a bacteria level I'm sure, but I love how they say out of what- 4 out of 5, out of 10, out of 20? I guess I was just hoping somebody would be more familiar with the lab jargon, since I can't get in touch with that lab till tomorrow morning.

As far as the effect on humans, I'm not so much concerned about myself, since I wash my hands before/after handlings. 'Specially with the newbies.

Deeeelightful, thanks anyway, I'll post what I hear from the lab, because I know it's such a burning question in all your minds. Kidding. (But I will post)
~Tiff
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"Were the diver to think upon the jaws of the shark, he would never lay hands on the precious pearl."

The number/level is never shown with a limit because there is no limit. Its just a level/count and at a certain number they start treating it. Different bacteria may be treated at different levels.

Any time proteus has shown up in one of my chameleons it has been in a wound not the feces and it has had to be treated.

Some bacteria are naturally found in the intestinal tract and unless the numbers are too high, no treatment is needed. Others need to be treated. I'm not a vet, so I can't tell you if 4 is high enough to treat or not...or which bacteria in the intestinal tract will resolve themselves without treatment.

Definately good to know, I was wondering why they hadn't shown the level as 4 out of X, but that makes perfect sense. I still have to get in touch with the lab to find out, some stuff came up... you know how it goes. I noticed that poor Zoe was missing nearly all of the claws on one of his front feet when I bought him, but his foot appears to be completely healed and not swollen. I wonder if that's why there's any trace of proteus in the fecal sample. Again... I'll have to contact the lab or the vet to see if they think I ought to take him in, or if it will just be undue stress. I thought it was surprising that the lab paperwork noted that no salmonelle was able to be isolated, since I thought salmonella was naturally occuring in a reptile's digestive track... but we aren't vets, so I won't speculate, lol, I'll just call the vet already and see what they have to say about it. Thanks for the input!
~Tiff
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"Were the diver to think upon the jaws of the shark, he would never lay hands on the precious pearl."

Regarding salmonella...I have had many chameleon and other lizard bodies autopsied and only one or two ever showed salmonella.

Now THAT'S interesting. I wonder why everbody makes such a huge deal about it if it isn't as commonplace as it's made to seem.
Innnnnteresting!

~Tiff

>>Regarding salmonella...I have had many chameleon and other lizard bodies autopsied and only one or two ever showed salmonella.
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"Were the diver to think upon the jaws of the shark, he would never lay hands on the precious pearl."