Reptile & Amphibian Forums

As a licensed falconer we enjoy our rights due to organization. With the herp industry there is little or no organization. A good example is that I am able to trap a falcon on or near a road right of way. I have watched over the years many examples of herpers loosing rights and privileges due to lack of organization. You have no voice because there is no collective voice. City after city is banning the keeping of herps within city limits. I won’t matter anymore that you can go collecting if the city you live in will not allow you to keep them. Perspective: The falconry community is about 4000 strong at any one time but we have a self imposed license system that insures us a voice and contraire to what is going on in the herp world we have gained ground. The herp community is at least 10,000 strong and there is no other way herpers as a whole will gain ground. Falconry has a legal right in almost every State to own and hunt hawks and falcons due to lobbing and hard work . I can even trap on a roadside at night if it is an owl!

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Would you mind giving us more info and specifics about how you guys have gone about that organization? BTW, I use to go falconing (sp?) as a kid in California. I have vivid memories of holding a HUGE preregrine falcon (sp?). It was awesome!!

Max
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Snakes to the Max

1.2 Variable Kingsnakes
1.1 Grayband x Ruthveni
0.1 Western Massasauga (WC)
1.1 Jungle Carpet Pythons
1.0 Jaguar Coastal Carpet Python
1.1 Pastel Red-tail Boas
1.0 Lavender Motley Cornsnake
3.1 Yearling Variable Kingsnakes
0.0.2 Yearling Western Massasaugas
1.1 Black Milksnakes
3.6 Honduran Milksnakes
1.3 Cornsnakes
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes
0.0.1 Baird's Ratsnake

The first thing you need to do is form an organization. We have the North American Falconry Association. The second step is membership everyone now has a reason to join the North American Reptile Association numbers count. Membership has to cost something but you get a Journal similar to reptile magazine but you have a board of directors and minutes of meetings and agendas are in there plus pertinent news. You take on the issues one at a time and gain ground. You now have a voice we did it with less than 4000 people. You lobby and get some laws turned around. You will need a reprehensive in every state and the North American Reptile Association should have at least one killer lawyer, we pay tax we have rights and we are willing to sue for those rights thus putting more cash in our association. Cash is a powerful tool. The association will become its own animal but will be the vehicle to turn this mess around.

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

I have been a falconer for 42 years as well as a herper. The HB 2414 had the trapping regulations for raptors proposed by The Texas Hawking Association which is affiliated with NAFA (North America Falconers Association). THA has worked with TP&W for about 30 years and most of the Texas Regs are the result of a positive relationship with TP&W and THA. We have a Falconry advisory board that meets regularly with TP&W to formulate regulations that are positive for both parties. As a club, we participate annually in the TP&W Expo held every October at TP&W's headquarters. We also donate money to different programs such as the Aplomado restoration project. (nice pic of Aplomado!)Anyway we need to form a cohesive group of herpers and start working toward a working relationship with TP&W.

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Until you get things cranked up your representatives can take 3or 4 States each. One for Texas of course. We , “The North American Falconers association network with the private clubs and we also try to have someone present every time the Wildlife and parks department have meetings. I have had to sit in on a few and voice our collective opinion. You would be surprised how far you can get by making a presence and voicing your collective opinion.

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

This organization will not spring up overnight. But in light of the events going on now we will have a fast head start, especially in Texas as the root.

What we need to keep in mind as we work towards a goal building this organization to not only protect our rights and interest but promote conservation and smart use of our natural resources is that we will be starting out with an obvious handicap. We will not start out with a track record and will be viewed with some skepticism to start with. We will have to understand this issue in the eyes of the public and move along one step at a time until that track record is laid out.

The first hard concept is if you police yourself they will back off. First Step is the Feds, The way they are set up is they have zones. A regional Chief is responsible for one zone. An example of a zone is one guy would govern say Texas, Colorado, Kansas and South Dakota (hypothetical). There is One Chief in Washington that governs all the regional chiefs. The federal guidelines dictate that State can be more restrictive than the Federal Government but not less so. The States guidelines come down from the Feds. As a falconer we are licensed by the State we live in and the Federal Government. The idea is to get some workable guidelines from the Feds that allow for the things we desire (step one) After that you have to deal with each State one by one. The high power attorney that is on our side is to make sure we do not get walked on such as bad interpretation of an existing law. I have met with two regional Chiefs and the Chief in washington with other animal related business and we have a few friends in high places but we (the herpers) need credibility.

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

The organization itself will be an effort towards that credibility we need. And as it was pointed out to have an impact it would need memberships, if we end up with a few hundred members, then we are basically a book club. We need a large membership base, and that will mean advertising in Reptile and Amphibian publications. Putting info out to all the herp societies to encourage their existing members to join a larger organization and getting as much of the general public as we can behind us.

To build the membership base then we would need to set up a very low fee structure. To hire the lawyers and lobbyist we would need to pull in donations beyond the fee base of revenue. In fact we would likely need to organize some events (shows or expos) as well as do some merchandising to draw in funds as well as memberships.

This is a huge effort if it is to have the desired long term impact. But I for one feel that it is worth it. And after the treatment we received under HB 12 I think that all Texas Herpers will agree. As for getting the membership and volunteers in other states, that will take some effort.

Why would we not start out in Texas and grow from there? That would just be a case of crawling before we run. Of course our first agenda would have to be addressing this mess.

I am trying to run ideas around as I go here....

Lance

do not dicount California and the FHF guys. They do not promote commercial collecting and many herpers post there. NAFHA has started their chapters, many there could see this as valuable to stem the tide flowing their way. We need thousands, this forum and all ks forums, along with fhf could be a real good start.
Todd Hughes

Also, where are all the snake authors? Many field herpers are publishing some excellent books and we should get them on board. Some even ascribe to there being millions of snakes out there, just inaccessible to the average herper. How about columnists in the herp mags? It would be nice to have some authors write about this and give their opinion. Just some ideas...
Todd Hughes

The falc0nry laws were passed many years ago. I know they were in effect in the 1950's. They were passed at a time when wildlife as a whole enjoyed little protection. Should you try to get such a system enacted today you woulldn't have a chance.

Some of the laws passed have been good laws but most are NOT good laws. Legilators exist to pass laws. Peecial interests have clout, individuals or small groups do not. TPWD has wanted for many years to shut down the herpers and now they have done it.
USFWS is a huge beueucratic organization (as is TPWD and every other state's game organization) and they want to maintain their piece of the pie. To grow they must enact new laws.

As I've suggested before, we need the press on our side. Without the media we are going nowhere but down in flames.

The press is the press they are on no ones side and press can backfire too. I just do not see any other way to gain ground. It has been take, take, take. I was in North Carolina a month and a half ago and Virginia I think just passed a law against the keeping of reptiles, mighta been hots or constrictors but as I recall they lost ground big time, quite a few angry herpers now it is in our backyard a matter of fact it is happening all over. It never involved us until now. There will be plenty of recruits with this cold wind blowing. Judy got out just in time.

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Falconry was illigal in Kansas as of 14 or so years ago and for that matter illegal in quite a few states until recently. It was Scott Johnson in Kansas that got us legal and I live within an hour from him and have access to him. It was Frank Bond from North American Falconry Association our lawyer that helped us over the hurdles. The States argument is that they had no funding to create a department to serve us so we all shelled out $350 in license fees to get a department put in, That is $350 every three years! Our fees now are around $70 FOR THREE YEARS. gOTTA START SOMEWHERE.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

It is apparent from reading the forum that there are a few responsible Texans who are spearheading the cause to have this law ammended as well as finding alternative measures to combat the situation, such as private land acquisition. I feel it would be in everyones best interest to let them responsibly champion our cause as they have set forth to do. we need to support them and jump on their bandwagon instead of fantasising about rediculous methods of retaliation. Many of the previous posts could prove to be counterproductive to their efforts. I realize that a hot button has been pushed with the passing of this law. We need to stand behind people like Joe, etc. who will do everything in their power to make changes we so desperately desire.

Yes, but what do the rest of us do in the interim? There must be something worthwhile instead of sitting here and thinking up more schemes? Brainstorming is good, we need a head, and a body, so the legs and arms can go to work! I know wheels are in motion but it is difficult to sit by and wait for the wind to blow. I am suggesting that high profile people who write about herps do some interviews or stories on these issues. Y' know, some of these great alterna stories that are going into books someday could be best sellers, and shed some light on the reality of we who are considered weird but are not! I think the right people in the media could be a good thing, a video or two showing a hunt/fellowship, what a person does in real life could go to show that we are all the same, with a passion for life and normal, although to truely go after one's dreams may not be mainstream!
Todd Hughes

That 200 herper idea someone had recently IS A GOOD ONE. I can think of no better place to have that mass demonstration of civil disobedience than the tops of each of the huge NINE-MILE CUTS, north of Sanderson. Invite the media. Invite TPWD. Invite Todd, Harvey, Carl, Matt and Rick. Invite the US Sportmen’s Alliance (see my MORHED INTO post on the Herp Law Forum). Besides, with all that area coverage on Nine Mile somebody is bound to find an alterna!