Reptile & Amphibian Forums

just curious as to the frequency people are seeing twins in their corns and if they find that females that produce them one year will consistently produce them subsequent years.

These guys are not out yet this morning (they pipped last night) and i know that at least one more egg has twins also (they pipped this morning). What is the most number of twins anyone has had in one clutch.

Just curious as there is lots of info out there on 2 headed snakes but i do not find anyone ever discussing twins.

thanks, don

Don,

Most of the time, when two corns share the same egg shell, they're not identical. That is, they're not the result of a divided egg within one shell. There isn't enough data (or proof)regarding identical twin frequency in corns, but I'm sure it's very rare.

Each year, I hatch about 20-30 pairs of corns that shared one egg shell. I suspect the other big breeders get that many or more. These are situations where more than one embryo becomes sheathed together in one shell during the shelling process. If two embryos are too near each other, they end up wrapped in the same casing (shell).

I'm not saying yours are not identical twins, but if they are, they're truly rare. To answer your Q about the propensity of one female continually producing twins, there is nothing heritable about identical twinning. Since they're the result of egg division after fertilization, they're just a random occurrence. Being an identical twin myself and having a brother and sister that are fraternal twins, I've done some study on the subject. If, however, your situation is like most of mine, there could be a propensity for a female to allow non-twin embryos to be cased together in one shell.

Suffice it to say, two snakes in one shell is still not very common. Please, show us comparison shots of yours after their first shed.

Congratulations,

Don Soderberg
South Mountain Reptiles
www.cornsnake.NET
South Mountain Reptiles

Don, thanks a lot. Exactly the info i was looking for. Love your work and your web site (visit it often).

I believe that i used the term twin for lack of a better word. I have had this happen before but never recall them being identical but then again i do not remember even thinking about it in that context so i never even looked. In fact most of the time i would only notice it after the fact when i seperated the babies and then checked the eggs to make sure they all hatched and would discover one more baby than i had egg. I guess that is why i never really thought much about it but this time, with at least 2 of the eggs in the clutch producing "pairs" (kinda a better word but then it may infer sexes), and observing the 2 heads poking out, it just got me wondering. Thanks for the quick and informative response.

don

Don, I get excited every single time I see two heads peeking out of the same egg. I'm too busy that time of year to witness all hatchings, but I keep strict track of the number of eggs per clutch and like you, I often find one more snake than the number of eggs I set up. I used to check for identical twins, but just like the finger prints of identical twins not matching, the markings of the snakes don't have to be identical. Therefore, would we even know if we had twins and would we even care? The only value I see in having identical twin corns is the novelty.

Have fun with your snakes and write if you ever have questions about them. Since I don't get to frequent forums like this very much, I'm intent on responding to all emails I receive.

Don
www.cornsnake.NET
South Mountain Reptiles

Don, I didn't realize you had an identical twin. Does he keep or breed any corns, or is he the total opposite of you when it comes to snakes, LOL?
And speaking of snakes, here's my 06 Sunglow Motley male I purchased from you last season. He's growing (and glowing) quite well. Steve

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SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS

Steve,

Awesome sunglow motley. I apologize for the markings not being more traditionally motley, but those colors are off the charts. Kudos.

Doug and I both still snake hunt reptiles together. He has always been into herps, but not to the extent that I am. He keeps herps now and then, but mostly likes finding them. You know. "The thrill of discovery".

Thanx for sharing the 'eye candy'.

Don
www.cornsnake.NET
South Mountain Reptiles

>>Steve,
>>
>>Awesome sunglow motley. I apologize for the markings not being more traditionally motley, but those colors are off the charts. Kudos.
>>
>>Doug and I both still snake hunt reptiles together. He has always been into herps, but not to the extent that I am. He keeps herps now and then, but mostly likes finding them. You know. "The thrill of discovery".
>>
>>Thanx for sharing the 'eye candy'.
>>

A little off topic but while we are on the subject...I am a twin as well. Fraternal not identical though.
My brother is an artist, singer and musician and I can't draw stick people or play any musical instruments or sing.
But then again he never had the love and interest in animals I have.
About the only thing we do share is our love of fishing....
and our tempers.....LOL
I am the taller one..gotta throw that in there...lol
we are standing in front of a section of his World's Largest Pencil Drawing...240 feet long by 8 feet tall called "One World One Song"

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

I always tell people I got the looks and brains and Doug got the good job. lol. I'll never have his money, but I'm alot happier raising snakes than he is designing aircraft tooling.

Awesome sketch in the background. Thanx.
South Mountain Reptiles

n/p
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3.6 L. getula californiae - 16 eggs (Cal. King)
1.1 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - 14 eggs (Cal. Alligator Lizard)