Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The person who had it (a friend of a friend) called it an african rat. Your guess is as good as mine with that haha. No pic yet, no locality (just my luck). The snake is almost blood red all the way through, it has a clear belly, plain white, with some of the red spilling unevenly around the edges. If I saw it from afar, I would have guessed a corn, but I am not sure. I don't think most diadems get color all the way down. Of course, I am assuming it came from Africa, so that could be the problem there. I will try and get pics soon. Thanks and happy herping. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

Sry...forgot the size. The snake is somewhere around 4-4.5 ft and is a male. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

Now that I look at it the head looks more like a corn or rat...But I still do not know what kind (morphs really screw me up since I am mainly a field herper). So if it is a corn/rat, anyone have any idea on what kind?

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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

Hey Andy,
It looks like one of the "Bloodred" Corns to me.

SlipKorn,
Dude...you need to chill a tad. I saw your post and thought "What the heck is going on here?" So...I looked back through the posts and found what riled you. I see where Andy was coming from. It makes all of us angry when someone kills a snake for no reason. But you have to realize that those people actually THINK they HAVE a reason. They have been raised to believe that when they kill a snake, any snake, they have done a good thing. As Andy said, it's our job to "unteach" that. Not to wish death on another human being because of their ignorance.

You have to remember a couple of key points. First, the non-herping public is, in general, deathly afraid of snakes and cannot tell the harmless ones from the venomous ones. We herpers are NOT in the majority. When they hear comments like that, that a snake keeper wants a human to die for killing a snake, it just makes you look like some sort of nutball in their eyes. The more you rant and rave, the more nutball it makes you look to them. That's not the way to win the hearts and minds of the non-herping public. This forum, in particular, is frequented by people who know NOTHING about snakes, have found one in their yard that they are scared to death of, and are trying to find out what it is. Do you really want them to come in here and read stuff like that? Remember, they have the biggest voice when it comes time to vote on laws being considered and things like that because there are many more of them than there are of us.

No, that is definetly a rat snake. I'm not sure what kind but it 100% rat snake. Slighty keeled scales, head, pattern on bottom, and the way it balls up in the hand. It's 100% a rat snake. Corns scales are not at all keeled, their head has a different shape, their patterns are more defined on bottom, and I have yet to see a corn that balls up when it is held. You gents have a lovely day

Corn Snakes definitely have several rows dorsally of weakly keeled scales, the ones on the sides (lateral rows)tend more toward smooth. The keels develop as the snake grows to adulthood...babies have either very weak keels or smooth scales. The also have divided anal plates if you want another ID key. And, by the way Corn Snakes ARE Rat Snakes..they belong to the same genus (Pantherophis) as all of the other N. American Rat Snakes. Since the "checkerboard" belly pattern is black in a normal individual, many of the morphs with reduced or no black have little or no discernable belly pattern, some will have reddish "blotches" on the belly instead of the black checkerboard pattern. The head shape is "different"? Different from what? It's a rat snake. The shape of a Corn Snake's head isn't that different from any other Pantherophis. There are some slight differences, but not so pronounced that you can see it readily from a side shot like that.

That doesn't mean that the individual in the photo is definitely a "Bloodred" Corn Snake (A Kathy Love morph), but then again I didn't say it was. I said it looked like one, what I was referring to was the coloration. But that may well be what it is. I don't know and I'm not familiar enough with African Colubrids (this one was referred to as an African Snake), to be trying to identify one of them.

Now...you have a lovely evening.

Am I mistaken or arent corns rat snakes. Anyway, it looks like a bloodred or possibly an everglades rat to me. Maybe a little too much red for everglades. My everglades has a creamy underside like that but without the red. So, really im not sure.
EP
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Occupants not paying rent:
7 balls
2 corns(normal, candy cane)
1 pueblan milk
1 everglades rat
1 cal. king
1 gray band king
1 w. hognose
1 bearded dragon
2 leopard geckos
2 fish, 1 snail
1 pac man frog
1 rat
5 cats

Its a bloodred corn. Usually they have some pattern showing, but this one seems to have lost it. The only other thing it could be is a 'glades rat, but thr head scales, from what I can tell, look more like guttata than obsoleta.
-Jack
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...and I think to myself, "What a wonderful world."

Let’s see. We seem to have two different issues here.

One. Snake I.D. – Andy. Yes. I vote for corn snake. It’s always nice to have other photo views, but this seems to be a captive-bred (and extremely well-fed) red rat snake, bred for umpteen generations to get that coloration and lack of pattern. The other possibility mentioned – Everglades/yellow rat snake – nah, if it didn’t bite and musk all over you, can’t be that. Anyway, is someone commercially breeding “morphs” of quadrivittata? Unlikely.

Two. Forum Behavior. Oldherper – You must have raised up a few children in your day. I think you were far too kind in trying to reason with SlipKorn. With his earlier remarks like, ” I think people that kill snakes for no reason other than the fact that they are scared should be tied up and shot in the face….”, it seemed pretty clear that we’re talking about a teenager with a giant chip on his shoulder trying to get some attention (apologies to all you other teens out there). His responses to your gentle attempt at education revealed that he is totally uninterested in filling in the gaps in his herpetological knowledge and has some real difficulties emotionally in relating to other humans. Okay. It’s not like he’s the only example of that on these boards, but, like you said, this forum is frequented by a lot of non-herpers. I suggest we start by ignoring him if he keeps up the “everyone who’s not like me should die a horrible death” routine. And meanwhile maybe his parents will take away his computer privileges.

-Joan

If I had to take one guess, i'd say a variation of the everglades Rat. Its definatley in the rat snake family, and its very beautiful...i'd love to have it.
-Mike

Look, I'm only 14yrs old. I have been studying herps as long as I can remember and have been on these forums for quite a few years(3-4 as far as I can recall) I beleive that there are some people on these forums are just here to be a$$holes. Their only purpose in life is to get on everyones nerves, SlipKorn being one of them. What are you doing even talking to us real reptile entusiasts. I'm sure everyone here could recognize that snake as either a bloodred corn are some dark phase of everglades ratsnake. Corns and rats ARE the same thing! You dont have to be right about everything, get over it... you aren't right about everything.
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I have: 1.0 veild chameleon, 1.1 corns, 0.1 az king, 1.1.1 tiger sals, 0.1 fox snakes, 0.1 3-toe box turtle, 0.0.3 gray tree frogs, 1.1 Crotaphytus collaris, 1.1 Crotaphytus binctores

You show an amazing level of maturity for a 14 year old.

>>You show an amazing level of maturity for a 14 year old.

Thanks,
I guess thats why I have no friends my age, only older herpin buddies and biologists.
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I have: 1.0 veild chameleon, 1.1 corns, 0.1 az king, 1.1.1 tiger sals, 0.1 fox snakes, 0.1 3-toe box turtle, 0.0.3 gray tree frogs, 1.1 Crotaphytus collaris, 1.1 Crotaphytus binctores

Just for comparison I figured I'd post this picture of an Everglades Rat that I used to own, when I first saw the picture of Andy's snake it reminded me of this snake, but looking at them side by side there are some differences.
I don't know if it will help one way or another, but why not add to the confusion right?
Good luck ID'ing the snake Andy.

Eric

Thanks a ton actually! It makes me think that I do have a corn. Most of my everglades pics were smaller...less detailed. That helped a ton though. I am probably taking it to the herp store tomorrow so I will let everyone see the outcome. Stupid little snake...why can't it just be clearcut? Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

It's very clear cut that it's a rat snake not a corn snake.

Sure buddy whatever you say
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

I'm leaning more towards corn too I think.....I notice the eyes in the everglades are brighter orange, and if you look closely at your snake, there appears to be some verical black stripes on the rear scales on the bottom jaw which I believe is more typical of corn snakes. Of course I'm just going by memory and experience, I could be completely off.

BTW, Andy....I'll be in Houston the week of the IHS and ETHS show and maybe a little after if you want to do some herping.

>>I'm leaning more towards corn too I think.....I notice the eyes in the everglades are brighter orange, and if you look closely at your snake, there appears to be some verical black stripes on the rear scales on the bottom jaw which I believe is more typical of corn snakes. Of course I'm just going by memory and experience, I could be completely off.
>>
>>BTW, Andy....I'll be in Houston the week of the IHS and ETHS show and maybe a little after if you want to do some herping.

I have to agree with erk. Also another characteristic of corns is that they have weekly keeled scales in rows 27-29 and 25-33 in rats.
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I have: 1.0 veild chameleon, 1.1 corns, 0.1 az king, 1.1.1 tiger sals, 0.1 fox snakes, 0.1 3-toe box turtle, 0.0.3 gray tree frogs, 1.1 Crotaphytus collaris, 1.1 Crotaphytus binctores

a blood corn snake and they are indangered

I own a few Bloodred corns. I am positive that it is a corn. The head looks perfectly corn to me. The space between the scales is very normal in older BLoods. Look at the top left corn in this pic:

Bloodreds loose their pattern with age. But what got me convinced was the typical bloodred belly on yours. Look at the belly from one of my Bloodreds:

Mind you that this is a young Bloodred which has not lost all it's pattern.

Marcel
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Marcel Poots (Holland)
'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

a
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

At first after I had figured out it was some sort of Elaphe I thought everglades or everglades/yellow. It could very well be a corn though. I believe I will post on the corn/rat forums as well though to see what they think as well, since I am getting mixed answers. I can get some more pics too if anyone wants them. Thanks again. Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

OK, SlipKorn...I think that's what we said. It's a Rat Snake, whether it's a Corn Snake or an Everglades Rat Sake, it's a Rat Snake. Yes, they are two different species, within the same genera. What you are saying is like saying and Eastern Diamondback can't be a Rattlesnake because a Western Diamondback is a Rattlesnake and they are two different species. They are both Rattlesnakes, just like Corn Snakes and Everglades Rat Snakes are both Rat Snakes. They belong to the same Genus, Pantherophis (formerly Elaphe), which includes ALL of the North American Rat Snakes, including the Corn Snakes, Baird's Rat Snakes, Gray Rat Snakes, Fox Snakes, Black Rat Snakes, Emory's Rat Snakes, yadayada.

And, both Corns Snakes and the Rat Snakes of the obsoleta group have weakly keeled dorsal scales.

I'm not going to tell you you don't know what you are talking about, but I would suggest that you bone up on your Taxonomy, Biology and Morphology with regards to the animals you are discussing before you start publicly inferring that someone else doesn't know what they are talking about. You make a fool of yourself if you don't. (not that you haven't already with the other comments about wishing a "slow, painful death" on another person)

That snake may very well be a very dark Everglades Rat Snake, nobody on here said it wasn't. Or it could be a Bloodred Corn Snake, nobody on here defitely said either way, except you. That's because the rest of us recognize the fact that we don't have enough information to make a definite conclusion. The fact of the matter is that the coloration of this snake is not of a normal wild-caught phenotype, or even close to it. It is also not of a standard run-o-the-mill albino Corn Snake or other very familiar morph. We have no genotype information. Since this is obviously a "man-made" morph, and could possibly even be some sort of hybrid between the two species, I don't think anyone can positively identify it except the person who owns it or produced it.

So, yeah..it's definitely 100% Rat Snake. Either guttata or obsoleta or somewhere in between.

OK..so you're 23 years old and you've been studying snakes since you were a kid. Good for 'ya! That's a good start. Tighten up on the relationships between genera and species and you'll be a little further along the way.

So...I'll defer to your vast experience and knowledge. My 35 years in this has obviously been wasted since I can't tell the difference between a Corn Snake and a Rat Snake.

No post

Read my post below...and oldherper's. Violence isn't the answer to correcting wrongs in this instance. What would happen if the electric worker died? Nothing...there are millions more out there just like him. Would they learn something from one person dying? Don't think so. As for telling me that I do not care, I am a field herper...I move snakes off the road all the time, even stop cars on HIGHWAYS (where cars move FAST) by moving in front of them so they will have to slow down as to save a COTTONMOUTH or NERODIA of all things. So do NOT even BEGIN to lecture me on humane treatment of animals. I VOLUNTEER at a wildlife rehabilitation center...we SAVE animals. And to imagine you are 23. As I said before, grow up. Get a grasp on life and think of whats best for all herpers, not just you. I geniunely asked for help and all you did was sit there and ridicule me.

Annoyed...Andy
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Andy Maddox
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains

>>The person who had it (a friend of a friend) called it an african rat. Your guess is as good as mine with that haha. No pic yet, no locality (just my luck). The snake is almost blood red all the way through, it has a clear belly, plain white, with some of the red spilling unevenly around the edges. If I saw it from afar, I would have guessed a corn, but I am not sure. I don't think most diadems get color all the way down. Of course, I am assuming it came from Africa, so that could be the problem there. I will try and get pics soon. Thanks and happy herping. Andy
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>>Andy Maddox
>> Houston Herp Key
>> The Reptizone
>>
>>Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains
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I have: 1.0 veild chameleon, 1.1 corns, 0.1 az king, 1.1.1 tiger sals, 0.1 fox snakes, 0.1 3-toe box turtle, 0.0.3 gray tree frogs, 1.1 Crotaphytus collaris, 1.1 Crotaphytus binctores

I'm gonna go out on a limb here (almost literally, perhaps, the way this thread is going!) and suggest that this might (and I emphasize "might" not be a domestic rat snake at all - corn or otherwise.

It was referred to in the original post as an "African rat snake," and I'm wondering if that might indeed be the case. I have a book somewhere on herps of southern Africa, and although I can't find the book at the moment (Doh!!), I know that there's a snake pictured in that book that looks awfully familiar. If I can find that dad-gum book, I'll get back here.

Meantime, let's dispense with all the baloney and continue this in an intelligent and respectful manner. Whattya say, folks?
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MichaelB

>>>>The person who had it (a friend of a friend) called it an african rat. Your guess is as good as mine with that haha. No pic yet, no locality (just my luck). The snake is almost blood red all the way through, it has a clear belly, plain white, with some of the red spilling unevenly around the edges. If I saw it from afar, I would have guessed a corn, but I am not sure. I don't think most diadems get color all the way down. Of course, I am assuming it came from Africa, so that could be the problem there. I will try and get pics soon. Thanks and happy herping. Andy
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>>>>Andy Maddox
>>>> Houston Herp Key
>>>> The Reptizone
>>>>
>>>>Who are you who can say it's ok to live through me? Alice In Chains
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>>I have: 1.0 veild chameleon, 1.1 corns, 0.1 az king, 1.1.1 tiger sals, 0.1 fox snakes, 0.1 3-toe box turtle, 0.0.3 gray tree frogs, 1.1 Crotaphytus collaris, 1.1 Crotaphytus binctores
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Marcel Poots (Holland)
'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

You're right, actually worrying about the truth of the matter is over-rated. What was I thinking?

Patrick Alexander

Now if you’d just lose those damn emoticons....

I'm too young... I was taught emoticons in high school. No joke. I'm still not used to KS animating them for me, they're much too obtrusive that way... I'll try and stop... so here's one more for good measure.

3: 8)-~

No kidding??? Emoticons 101? That is too funny...who says you never use what you learn in school?

Eric

Well, the 'net was sorta new back then. They didn't have much material to go on. Ah, for the simple days of 1993...

Sorry Greg. But “RE:Synonym for corn snake is red ratsnake n/p” just doesn’t crack me up.