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Ok, I'll admit I'm totally clueless when it comes to genetics. I honestly need a recipe book for snakes or something! I should probably ask this on the other boa forum (sand boa), but I'll try you guys first cuz' I know some of you have them.

Anyways, for sand boas, when they tell you something is het for snow, does that mean it is in a way het for Albino and Anery since it takes a combination of those genes to get a snow? If you bred an Anery to an Albino who is het for snow would you still just get 100% double hets or an actual Anery?

Also, I've read that paradox albinos and regular albinos cannot be crossed. I have an albino who is het paradox snow from a paradox snow bred to a paradox albino. Does that mean she couldn't be bred to a regular albino to make albino babies or is it different because she is just het paradox? In fact, is it even possible to have a het paradox come from two paradoxes breeding? I'm a little confused on that point. Is she just not showing the paradox signs?

Ok, enough questions to start with. Trust me, I have a million more even dumber! Like what do you get when you cross a snow and an anery? I can find the answer to almost every other cross but that one. If someone would offer a snake genetics course by mail, I would be the first to sign up!
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Liann
1.0 Colombian Boa (Austin)
1.0 Suriname Boa (Aloysius)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Carmen)
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Pueblan Milk (Marishka)
1.1 Sinaloan Milk
1.1 Hypo Honduran Milk (Damien & Lucy)
1.1 Pastel BP
1.0 Spider BP
1.2 Het Pied BP
1.1 Het Albino BP
1.8 Ball Pythons
0.1 Crested Gecko (Chloe)
1.2 SHTC Leos (Rico, Sabine, & Yazmine)
0.1 Albino Leo (Mandy)
0.1 Leo (Lola)
2.0 Bearded Dragons (Sydney & Dundee)
1.0 Uro (Kegan)
2.1 Wiener Dogs (Dakota, Montana, & Cheyenne)
Too many corn snakes to list!

I'll fill ya in where I can.

YES, het for snow would indicate having both anery and albino genes. More accurately described as DH snow.

Anery x albino het snow would yield:
1/2 anery het snow
1/2 DH snow

I'm not aware of paradox albino not being compatible with albino, at least not in BCI's.

Paradox albinos are albino's that are showing some black specks, hence the paradox. IMO you can't have a het paradox albino. If the animal is albino, then it's either albino or paradox, UNLESS, the paradox is a seperate gene then could be. Not sure what research has been done in sand boas to determine genetics of the paradox albino.

Snow x anery is easy
100% anery het snow

Look at each trait seperately so:
snow x anery =
albino x normal plus
anery x anery

the albino x normal will yield 100% het albino
the anery x anery will yield 100% anerys

now combine back and 100% anery, het albino or anery het snow
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

THANK YOU DAVE! I appreciate the help! Glad to know I wasn't in total left field.

As far as the paradox. I'm not totally sure of the details, but some people say the only true albino sand boa is an albino paradox. The other regular albino that is seen was actually from breeding a sand boa to an egyptian sand boa. This is where it starts getting over my head - tyrosinase gene etc... What I still do not really understand is how my albino could be het paradox snow when both parents were paradox's. I'm going to have to write the breeder and see if I can get an explanation so I understand her genetics better. I am getting her on Thursday and from the pictures I swear I can see one black scale on her side. Once I see her in person I'll know better. If it is a black scale, then I would assume she was a paradox and just being sold as a normal albino since she had no speckling.
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Liann
1.0 Colombian Boa (Austin)
1.0 Suriname Boa (Aloysius)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Carmen)
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Pueblan Milk (Marishka)
1.1 Sinaloan Milk
1.1 Hypo Honduran Milk (Damien & Lucy)
1.1 Pastel BP
1.0 Spider BP
1.2 Het Pied BP
1.1 Het Albino BP
1.8 Ball Pythons
0.1 Crested Gecko (Chloe)
1.2 SHTC Leos (Rico, Sabine, & Yazmine)
0.1 Albino Leo (Mandy)
0.1 Leo (Lola)
2.0 Bearded Dragons (Sydney & Dundee)
1.0 Uro (Kegan)
2.1 Wiener Dogs (Dakota, Montana, & Cheyenne)
Too many corn snakes to list!

...of why offspring would be het paradox snow when both parents are paradox.

I think they are differentiating between snow morphs based on which albino gene they carry. i.e.

Paradox snow = paradox albino anery
normal snow = normal albino anery

This would make sense especially if there is a significant visible difference between paradox and non paradox or if one sells for alot more.

Hope this is helpfull.

Sean.

My mathematical punnet square approach for multiple morphs.

We all know that figuring out the odds for any secific outcome in a multi-morph project can be difficult at best. I've devised the following method to calculate the odds:

First off, look at each morph seperately. It's much easier to run a punnet square on one morph at a time then combine back later.

Only concern yourself with phenotypical outcomes,

For example, the following, semi complicated, cross:

Sunglow het anery (one hypo gene, two albino genes and one anery gene) mated to:
TH moonglow (one each hypo, albino and anery genes)

Would be divided into three morph calculations:

Hypo = het x het (dominant)
¾ hypo (possible super)
¼ normal

Albino = Homozygous x het (recessive)
½ albino
½ het albino

Anery = het x het (recessive)
¼ anery
¾ pos het anery

For any multi-morph pairing the total number of possible phenotypes is determined by multiplying the individual morph phenotypes. In the example 2x2x2=8

List out the various possible phenotypes:

Hypo, albino, anery
Hypo, albino, pos het anery
Hypo, het albino, anery
Hypo, het albino, pos het anery
Normal, albino, anery (note: I listed the "normal outcome for the hypo pairing)
Normal, albino, pos het anery
Normal, het albino, anery
Normal, het albino, pos het anery

Then multiply together the individual phenotype fractions:

Hypo(¾), albino(½), anery(¼) = ¾ x ½ x ¼ = 3/32
Hypo, albino, pos het anery = ¾ x ½ x ¾ = 9/32
Hypo, het albino, anery = ¾ x ½ x ¼ = 3/32
Hypo, het albino, pos het anery = ¾ x ½ x ¾ = 9/32
Normal, albino, = ¼ x ½ x ¼ = 1/32
Normal, albino, pos het anery = ¼ x ½ x ¾ = 3/32
Normal, het albino, anery = ¼ x ½ x ¼ = 1/32
Normal, het albino, pos het anery = ¼ x ½ x ¾ = 3/32

Clear as mud?
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I have a little steam coming out the ears, but these explanations are helping clear things up. I will definitely be printing these posts out for reference!
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Liann
1.0 Colombian Boa (Austin)
1.0 Suriname Boa (Aloysius)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Carmen)
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Pueblan Milk (Marishka)
1.1 Sinaloan Milk
1.1 Hypo Honduran Milk (Damien & Lucy)
1.1 Pastel BP
1.0 Spider BP
1.2 Het Pied BP
1.1 Het Albino BP
1.8 Ball Pythons
0.1 Crested Gecko (Chloe)
1.2 SHTC Leos (Rico, Sabine, & Yazmine)
0.1 Albino Leo (Mandy)
0.1 Leo (Lola)
2.0 Bearded Dragons (Sydney & Dundee)
1.0 Uro (Kegan)
2.1 Wiener Dogs (Dakota, Montana, & Cheyenne)
Too many corn snakes to list!

-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

OK.. First
- if it is Het for snow, it will be double het, one for albino and one for anery. If it is a possible het for snow, it means there is a possibility of being double het (or het for one or the other - or possibly not het for either - to narrow that down, you would need the genetics of the parents).

If you breed an anery to an albino het snow, you will get anery animals and normal looking double hets for your offspring.

As for the pardox - I don't know what is going on w/ those in the sand boa world.. you will have to wait a bit until someone w/ a grip on sandboas chime in.

If you are curious about the genetic thing.. you can read a bit more about it here. This is directed at ball pythons (just keep in mind some morphs don't act the same way in all snakes - pastel for example is very different between balls and boa constrictors).. but anyway, it will give you a better understanding of how the genitics work.

just scroll down below the care sheets and check out the 4 articles on genetics..
www.newenglandreptile.com/care.html

>>Ok, I'll admit I'm totally clueless when it comes to genetics. I honestly need a recipe book for snakes or something! I should probably ask this on the other boa forum (sand boa), but I'll try you guys first cuz' I know some of you have them.
>>
>>Anyways, for sand boas, when they tell you something is het for snow, does that mean it is in a way het for Albino and Anery since it takes a combination of those genes to get a snow? If you bred an Anery to an Albino who is het for snow would you still just get 100% double hets or an actual Anery?
>>
>>Also, I've read that paradox albinos and regular albinos cannot be crossed. I have an albino who is het paradox snow from a paradox snow bred to a paradox albino. Does that mean she couldn't be bred to a regular albino to make albino babies or is it different because she is just het paradox? In fact, is it even possible to have a het paradox come from two paradoxes breeding? I'm a little confused on that point. Is she just not showing the paradox signs?
>>
>>Ok, enough questions to start with. Trust me, I have a million more even dumber! Like what do you get when you cross a snow and an anery? I can find the answer to almost every other cross but that one. If someone would offer a snake genetics course by mail, I would be the first to sign up!
>>-----
>>-----
>>Liann
>>1.0 Colombian Boa (Austin)
>>1.0 Suriname Boa (Aloysius)
>>0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Carmen)
>>1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
>>1.0 Pueblan Milk (Marishka)
>>1.1 Sinaloan Milk
>>1.1 Hypo Honduran Milk (Damien & Lucy)
>>1.1 Pastel BP
>>1.0 Spider BP
>>1.2 Het Pied BP
>>1.1 Het Albino BP
>>1.8 Ball Pythons
>>0.1 Crested Gecko (Chloe)
>>1.2 SHTC Leos (Rico, Sabine, & Yazmine)
>>0.1 Albino Leo (Mandy)
>>0.1 Leo (Lola)
>>2.0 Bearded Dragons (Sydney & Dundee)
>>1.0 Uro (Kegan)
>>2.1 Wiener Dogs (Dakota, Montana, & Cheyenne)
>>Too many corn snakes to list!
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photos.xtremecombatsports.com

Thanks Tim! That's a good website (I am going to STUDY it). I'm usually ok with simple recessives and codoms, it's when I start dealing with double recessives and up that my eyes start to glaze over.
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Liann
1.0 Colombian Boa (Austin)
1.0 Suriname Boa (Aloysius)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Carmen)
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Pueblan Milk (Marishka)
1.1 Sinaloan Milk
1.1 Hypo Honduran Milk (Damien & Lucy)
1.1 Pastel BP
1.0 Spider BP
1.2 Het Pied BP
1.1 Het Albino BP
1.8 Ball Pythons
0.1 Crested Gecko (Chloe)
1.2 SHTC Leos (Rico, Sabine, & Yazmine)
0.1 Albino Leo (Mandy)
0.1 Leo (Lola)
2.0 Bearded Dragons (Sydney & Dundee)
1.0 Uro (Kegan)
2.1 Wiener Dogs (Dakota, Montana, & Cheyenne)
Too many corn snakes to list!

Liann,
...Those links in the NERD website are good. Have you considered taking college classes in biology? If you are lucky you may be close to a college that even has a genetics class. Some reptile people are really sharp on genetics but many of them are only repeating "recipes" and do not really understand the science of genetics. BTW, other good college courses for a herper are Anatomy and Physiology, Pathophysiology, Microbiology, Zoology, and Pharmacology. Most of those courses are biased towards human aspects but if you learn that stuff the transfer to reptilian practice is easy. If you are very lucky you may even find a college course in Herpetology.
Jeff

>>OK.. First
>>- if it is Het for snow, it will be double het, one for albino and one for anery. If it is a possible het for snow, it means there is a possibility of being double het (or het for one or the other - or possibly not het for either - to narrow that down, you would need the genetics of the parents).
>>
>>If you breed an anery to an albino het snow, you will get anery animals and normal looking double hets for your offspring.
>>
>>As for the pardox - I don't know what is going on w/ those in the sand boa world.. you will have to wait a bit until someone w/ a grip on sandboas chime in.
>>
>>If you are curious about the genetic thing.. you can read a bit more about it here. This is directed at ball pythons (just keep in mind some morphs don't act the same way in all snakes - pastel for example is very different between balls and boa constrictors).. but anyway, it will give you a better understanding of how the genitics work.
>>
>>just scroll down below the care sheets and check out the 4 articles on genetics..
>>www.newenglandreptile.com/care.html
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Ok, I'll admit I'm totally clueless when it comes to genetics. I honestly need a recipe book for snakes or something! I should probably ask this on the other boa forum (sand boa), but I'll try you guys first cuz' I know some of you have them.
>>>>
>>>>Anyways, for sand boas, when they tell you something is het for snow, does that mean it is in a way het for Albino and Anery since it takes a combination of those genes to get a snow? If you bred an Anery to an Albino who is het for snow would you still just get 100% double hets or an actual Anery?
>>>>
>>>>Also, I've read that paradox albinos and regular albinos cannot be crossed. I have an albino who is het paradox snow from a paradox snow bred to a paradox albino. Does that mean she couldn't be bred to a regular albino to make albino babies or is it different because she is just het paradox? In fact, is it even possible to have a het paradox come from two paradoxes breeding? I'm a little confused on that point. Is she just not showing the paradox signs?
>>>>
>>>>Ok, enough questions to start with. Trust me, I have a million more even dumber! Like what do you get when you cross a snow and an anery? I can find the answer to almost every other cross but that one. If someone would offer a snake genetics course by mail, I would be the first to sign up!
>>>>-----
>>>>-----
>>>>Liann
>>>>1.0 Colombian Boa (Austin)
>>>>1.0 Suriname Boa (Aloysius)
>>>>0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Carmen)
>>>>1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
>>>>1.0 Pueblan Milk (Marishka)
>>>>1.1 Sinaloan Milk
>>>>1.1 Hypo Honduran Milk (Damien & Lucy)
>>>>1.1 Pastel BP
>>>>1.0 Spider BP
>>>>1.2 Het Pied BP
>>>>1.1 Het Albino BP
>>>>1.8 Ball Pythons
>>>>0.1 Crested Gecko (Chloe)
>>>>1.2 SHTC Leos (Rico, Sabine, & Yazmine)
>>>>0.1 Albino Leo (Mandy)
>>>>0.1 Leo (Lola)
>>>>2.0 Bearded Dragons (Sydney & Dundee)
>>>>1.0 Uro (Kegan)
>>>>2.1 Wiener Dogs (Dakota, Montana, & Cheyenne)
>>>>Too many corn snakes to list!
>>-----
>>photos.xtremecombatsports.com

I would actually love to take some bio courses. I started off as a bio major, so I have some general bio courses under my belt along with some Micro. Bio. & Invert. Zoology courses. Unfortunately though we never delved much into genetics, and then dumb me changed my major to business.
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Liann
1.0 Colombian Boa (Austin)
1.0 Suriname Boa (Aloysius)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Carmen)
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Pueblan Milk (Marishka)
1.1 Sinaloan Milk
1.1 Hypo Honduran Milk (Damien & Lucy)
1.1 Pastel BP
1.0 Spider BP
1.2 Het Pied BP
1.1 Het Albino BP
1.8 Ball Pythons
0.1 Crested Gecko (Chloe)
1.2 SHTC Leos (Rico, Sabine, & Yazmine)
0.1 Albino Leo (Mandy)
0.1 Leo (Lola)
2.0 Bearded Dragons (Sydney & Dundee)
1.0 Uro (Kegan)
2.1 Wiener Dogs (Dakota, Montana, & Cheyenne)
Too many corn snakes to list!

Dig around and see what you can find locally - if you can't find a class locally - you can always just find good text books and work through it yourself. Not as easy, but if you are motivated to learn it, you push through it that way as well.

One of the few things I know that are for certain, a good book that will teach you something is never a poor investment.

>>I would actually love to take some bio courses. I started off as a bio major, so I have some general bio courses under my belt along with some Micro. Bio. & Invert. Zoology courses. Unfortunately though we never delved much into genetics, and then dumb me changed my major to business.
>>-----
>>-----
>>Liann
>>1.0 Colombian Boa (Austin)
>>1.0 Suriname Boa (Aloysius)
>>0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Carmen)
>>1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
>>1.0 Pueblan Milk (Marishka)
>>1.1 Sinaloan Milk
>>1.1 Hypo Honduran Milk (Damien & Lucy)
>>1.1 Pastel BP
>>1.0 Spider BP
>>1.2 Het Pied BP
>>1.1 Het Albino BP
>>1.8 Ball Pythons
>>0.1 Crested Gecko (Chloe)
>>1.2 SHTC Leos (Rico, Sabine, & Yazmine)
>>0.1 Albino Leo (Mandy)
>>0.1 Leo (Lola)
>>2.0 Bearded Dragons (Sydney & Dundee)
>>1.0 Uro (Kegan)
>>2.1 Wiener Dogs (Dakota, Montana, & Cheyenne)
>>Too many corn snakes to list!
-----
photos.xtremecombatsports.com

If someone says they have an Anery that is het for snow, would it really just be an Anery het for Albino? And an albino that is het for snow, wouldn't that just be an albino het for anery? Or am I missing something?
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Liann
1.0 Colombian Boa (Austin)
1.0 Suriname Boa (Aloysius)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Carmen)
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa
1.0 Pueblan Milk (Marishka)
1.1 Sinaloan Milk
1.1 Hypo Honduran Milk (Damien & Lucy)
1.1 Pastel BP
1.0 Spider BP
1.2 Het Pied BP
1.1 Het Albino BP
1.8 Ball Pythons
0.1 Crested Gecko (Chloe)
1.2 SHTC Leos (Rico, Sabine, & Yazmine)
0.1 Albino Leo (Mandy)
0.1 Leo (Lola)
2.0 Bearded Dragons (Sydney & Dundee)
1.0 Uro (Kegan)
2.1 Wiener Dogs (Dakota, Montana, & Cheyenne)
Too many corn snakes to list!

Yes, they are synonymous.....

Anery het snow = anery het albino
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

while in general snow = albino anery this is not always the case. Normally it will be but it depends on the natural coloration of the animal.

My trans pecos ratsnakes(aka subocs) are an example of this. Since their natural coloration is mostly yellow, black, and brown or combinations there of the snow morph is different. In this case a snow TPRS = albino axanthic.

Just thought I'd chime in with the minor exception to the normal snow recipe.

Sean.

so I e-mailed that guy and asked him if he knew that ghost meant anery and hypo genes together and I went into further detail asking him if it was of Darren Bell lineage cuz it is not of Lockwood lineage and also asked if it had either the Sharp anery gene or the one from Robert Seib and the answer I got from the guy was along the lines of exactly typing back to me stating this......

It is a WC imported adult. No were in the ad does it say it's a CB adult animal.
Sorry if the ad was confusing.

Confusing is right lol
Bob

Bob,
..There is no confusing the fact that that buggered up nose on the snake does make it look imported. I should try to say something nice so I will just say it is a nice color.
Jeff

>>so I e-mailed that guy and asked him if he knew that ghost meant anery and hypo genes together and I went into further detail asking him if it was of Darren Bell lineage cuz it is not of Lockwood lineage and also asked if it had either the Sharp anery gene or the one from Robert Seib and the answer I got from the guy was along the lines of exactly typing back to me stating this......
>>
>>It is a WC imported adult. No were in the ad does it say it's a CB adult animal.
>>Sorry if the ad was confusing.
>>
>>Confusing is right lol
>>Bob

thats classic!

Well I did some checking and found out the procedure for addressing those inaccuracies/falacies in adds is. Basically you click on the "report abuse" link above the add and your message will get sent to the abuse/fraud person.

They will then make an evaluation and if the ad seems to be fraudulent they will have the vendor correct it or they will remove it.

Even though clear info on getting them corrected was not available in the FAQ the guy in charge of abuse/fraud was very informative and helpfull. He did say though that what they can do is limited to only people who are breaking TOS or who apear to be commiting fraud with the ad.

I think the guy pulled his ad after you talked to him because I didn't see it anywhere earlier today. I'm assuming it will be back with better wording soon.

Sean.

Hey guys, just wanted to thank you all for helping explain some of this to me. I actually get it now and have been sitting here at work trying out a bunch of different crosses!
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Liann
1.0 Colombian Boa (Austin)
1.0 Suriname Boa (Aloysius)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Carmen)
3.4 Kenyans (Snow, Anery, Albino)
1.0 Pueblan Milk (Marishka)
1.1 Sinaloan Milk
1.1 Hypo Honduran Milk (Damien & Lucy)
1.1 Pastel BP
1.0 Spider BP
1.2 Het Pied BP
1.1 Het Albino BP
1.8 Ball Pythons
0.1 Crested Gecko (Chloe)
1.2 SHTC Leos (Rico, Sabine, & Yazmine)
0.1 Albino Leo (Mandy)
0.1 Leo (Lola)
2.0 Bearded Dragons (Sydney & Dundee)
1.0 Uro (Kegan)
2.1 Wiener Dogs (Dakota, Montana, & Cheyenne)
Too many corn snakes to list!

lead to wanting more snakes and more e-mails to Dave lol but oh so true and I know from personal experience
Bob

She's already been lured to the dark side!!!!!

Oouuaahhh Haaaa Haaaaaa!!!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

-----
-----
Liann
1.0 Colombian Boa (Austin)
1.0 Suriname Boa (Aloysius)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Carmen)
3.4 Kenyans (Snow, Anery, Albino)
1.0 Pueblan Milk (Marishka)
1.1 Sinaloan Milk
1.1 Hypo Honduran Milk (Damien & Lucy)
1.1 Pastel BP
1.0 Spider BP
1.2 Het Pied BP
1.1 Het Albino BP
1.8 Ball Pythons
0.1 Crested Gecko (Chloe)
1.2 SHTC Leos (Rico, Sabine, & Yazmine)
0.1 Albino Leo (Mandy)
0.1 Leo (Lola)
2.0 Bearded Dragons (Sydney & Dundee)
1.0 Uro (Kegan)
2.1 Wiener Dogs (Dakota, Montana, & Cheyenne)
Too many corn snakes to list!