Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Why is it that almost invariably sellers (in Kingsnake and other classifieds)post pictures of the babies rather than their parents? These pictures, especially in the case of corns, tell us very little or nothing about what the animals will eventually look like. If I'm buying an okeetee, a reverse okeetee, or a sunkissed, EVERYTHING depends on seeing the quality of the parents-and any competent breeder should know this.

I really hate to say it, but it's almost to the extent that I begin to think that some of these folks may have something to hide....

Brad Chambers

Can't answer your question but those are some stunning okeetees....
-----
.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"

"Have you ever tried simply turning off the T.V., sitting down with your kids... and hitting them?"

>>Why is it that almost invariably sellers (in Kingsnake and other classifieds)post pictures of the babies rather than their parents? These pictures, especially in the case of corns, tell us very little or nothing about what the animals will eventually look like. If I'm buying an okeetee, a reverse okeetee, or a sunkissed, EVERYTHING depends on seeing the quality of the parents-and any competent breeder should know this.
>>
>>I really hate to say it, but it's almost to the extent that I begin to think that some of these folks may have something to hide....
>>
>>Brad Chambers
>>

it's mostly because people want to see what they're getting.
I mean seeing a pair of ghost parents when you are buying their snow hatchling just wouldn't help. (using one of my results this season.)
People want to see the product first then if they are inetersted the breeder can supply pictures of the parents.
If I'm buying a stripe or motley I want to see the snake in question first. I want to see if it has the pattern I'm looking for, then I want to see the parents to see the potential outcome.
There are plenty of resons, the look of the parents just isn't always relevant. Just contact the breeder if you want more information.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

I agree, in the case of the examples that you gave-but in the ones I enumerated, babies pretty much only show subtle differences at best. There are three spaces for pics in the ads, why not show a pic of a baby, one of the Damm, and one of the sire?

Brad Chambers

>>I agree, in the case of the examples that you gave-but in the ones I enumerated, babies pretty much only show subtle differences at best. There are three spaces for pics in the ads, why not show a pic of a baby, one of the Damm, and one of the sire?
>>
>>Brad Chambers

all three would work.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Hey Brad!,Good pic of the babies! Jeff

Growing like weeds too-I'll have to post some updated pics soon(this one is from March). They'll be more than big enough to breed next spring. In fact, a couple of the females and the male are marginally big enough now! I certainly get tons of compements on them.

Brad Chambers

Babies don't always grow up to look like parents.
In fact, if parents are from different lines, they can look quite different.
-----
3.6 L. getula californiae - 16 eggs (Cal. King)
1.1 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - 14 eggs (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

But the point of my post is that all baby corns go through such a profound ontogenetic color and pattern change that it is, usually, much more valuable to get a good view of the parents in order to properly assess their potential.

For example, last Spring (06) when Jeff Cochran posted pics of his pair of abbott okeetees, I immediately contacted him to reserve some hatchlings-the adults were THAT outstanding. I was uninterested in seeing pics of the individual babies-the adult pics told me what I needed to know. I let Jeff choose which ones to send. And you can see the result.

Brad Chambers

>>For example, last Spring (06) when Jeff Cochran posted pics of his pair of abbott okeetees, I immediately contacted him to reserve some hatchlings-the adults were THAT outstanding. I was uninterested in seeing pics of the individual babies-the adult pics told me what I needed to know. I let Jeff choose which ones to send. And you can see the result.

Well, even there I have to disagree. I pick Abbott's based on the look of them even as babies. If you know what to look for, you can pick the ones with the darkest borders (as adults) right after the hatch - even if they don't come from the best parents.

I do agree, though, that showing the parents IS the best plan. I like ads that show parents AND babies, but it doesn't matter much if they produce babies from unlike parents (hets, etc.), different line adults (misleading since the babies may look MUCH worse than the adults, etc.), etc. - many of the same things people have already said. Besides, it isn't easy getting GOOd images of adults - and some of these sellers have HUNDREDS...

KJ
-----
KJUN Snakehaven

I agree Brad. I've had the same complaint myself for a while. I've passed over buying some babies simply because pictures of the parents arent available.

I have the exact same complaint about shows too. At Hamburg, I stopped by quite a few tables inquiring about babies on display. A simple "What can you tell me about the parents colors and such?" is NORMALLY replied to with a short head shake and a mumble "I dont really know". I was astounded that was more common than not for the experience. I'm in the market for some KILLER looking okeetees (like yours, WOW!!) and dont bother with just pix of babies, I want to see the adults too.

On the other hand, I'm usually looking for snakes that arent loaded with lots of genes. Stuff I'm in the market for is going to look just like the parents, and not be het for bubbles or 6 wheels. For folks looking for stuff that wont resemble the parents at all, it's a different scenario. I can see that argument now.

-----
Tom

"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

at the pics of Jeff Cochran's adults above, and then at the yearlings I got from him-that's my poin t in a nutshell! Corns naturally change color as they mature, and are at their ugliest as hatchlings. But I think that most people who were in the market for smokin' Okeetees would take one look at Jeff's, and buy with confidence....And I believe any seller who is truly proud of his breeding stock would be ANXIOUS to show them off!

Brad Chambers

I agree with you also Brad when it comes to corns such as Okee's. I two have a pair of Jeff's from last year and they are awesome!!

no post