Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I need some opinions here. I rescued my ball about 6 yrs. ago from being killed for no reason. She has never been near another snake since I got her, well when I woke up yesterday AM she was coiled around a nice clutch of about 10 eggs! I did confirm that they are indeed fertile (they look like jumbo chicken eggs & do have veins) Now what is happening here?!? I am still in shock!!

~Shari

Its an interesting case...

BPs do retain sperm, and there are plenty of examples of babies from one season being fathered by the father from a previous season's breeding.

It seems very unlikely that sperm can remain viable for six years. Thats hard to believe.

Now, if we rule that out, that only leaves us with parthenogenisis (mispelled, I'm sure) as the other option. There have been well documented cases of "virgin birth" in many snake species, and there was a veterinary doctor that used to post here years ago that had an unbred BP produce viable eggs.

If it were me, I'd find a nearby university and find out who in there biology department might have an interest in this topic. With their resources they could pretty easily confirm or rule out parthenogenisis. All they would need is a shed skin from mom and a few of the babies.

Thanks for the reply.....so what should I do to get started with this science? I'm really excited! Should I leave her eggs with her or make an incubator? (funds are low at this time, but I want to do this right)also, will her offspring all be clones of her?

~Shari

Well, you can leave her to incubate the eggs, but you 'll need to provide optimum temps and humidity. I would think her temps would need to be fairly constant in the high 80s and have humidity around 80% or so. Its probably alot easier to incubate them artifically.

As far as whether or not the offspring would be clones, that's very often how it works. I know in some species where parthenogenesis has been know to occur, the offspring were genetically identical to mom. I don't suppose they would have to be. IF the mechanism by which this happens involves two eggs fusing, then I would think the offspring would not be clones. A genetic test easily would confirm if all of the genetic material came from mom or if there was a contribution from a male.

As far as the science goes, goal #1 is to hatch the eggs. After that, the testing can be done at any time. Are you near any decent universities?

PITT U or WVU are pretty close. Thanks again for the info, I really appreciate it, & if you got more, I'll take it!! LOL...

~Shari

Hey! There are a couple of good links posted at the top of the forum under the surprise eggs post. They should help with your incubation issues.

Contact either of your nearby universities to see if they are interested. I bet you'll find someone there who would be. Just go to their web site, find the biology department, and see whose research interests lie in this area. Anyone with a reptile interest or reproductive phys interest might want to look into this. As I said before, the testing would be simple and relatively inexpensive.

Just do a little web search and shoot off a few e-mails.

Here's a link to the biology faculty research interests at WVU. There are probably a half dozen people on the list that might be interested in looking at some DNA.

E-mail them, explaining the period of time you've owned the snake, and the circumstances around your eggs. I'm pretty sure all they would need is a shed skin from mom and babies. Let us know if you find someone willing to look into this.

http://www.as.wvu.edu/biology/faculty/faculty.htm

I'm not finding the suprise eggs post.....I even put it in search. Thanks again for the info!

Its third from the top!

heres the link -

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1341517,1341517

read the other posts in the thread and check out the links...

Duh.....Im a genius, huh? LOL....Thank you!

~Shari

let's just hope the neonates are able to slither on water..cuz then we have ourselves some holy snakes

Whatever it is, it's cool! Congratulations.

It sure is cool, I'm still shocked about it! Thanks!!

~Shari

You sound a little sarcastic. As I stated before, parthenogenisis (virgin births) have been well documented in a wide variety of species. Some species, such as aphids (a tiny insect) females regularly do this as a routine part of their reproductuve cycle. In snakes, several well documented cases have occured in everything from rattlesnakes to pythons. Recently, a couple of documented cases have been observed in sharks at a couple of different aquariums.

Its not a miracle, just a quirk of nature. It's an organism's last chance to perpetuate the species when a suitable mate cant be found. Its not well understood, but happens fairly frequently. Like I said, there is a good opportunity for the original poster to do some pretty cool science to find out if in fact this is what has occurred.

Have you taken her to the vet lately? The vet or technician may have stuck her temporarily with another snake...

Just a thought?

Nope not a possibility.

This snake did not leave the house in the ladt year for ANY reason?

NO other snake was near her, even one you may think is a male?

I've had her out in my yard.....watching her the whole time, I have dogs & cats also & have to keep a close eye on all of them when I have my ball out, but never anywhere else.

~Shari

i bought a female ball from a guy with a similar story. The babies were beautiful but i could only afford the cheapest girl which is still stunning, in fact one of my favorites. It was from a girl they were given from a friend i think he said it was nearly 20 years old and kept by itself as a pet only. They didnt want to breed her and risk complications due to age...well she had eggs i guess and they made it full term. I dont if she retained sperm, had a little romance in a changing enclosure or if shes a miracle baby but i like her color way too much to even care lol... I've included a few pictures, please excuse me i tend to take pictures on cleaning days lol

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