Reptile & Amphibian Forums

WREG (Memphis, Tennessee) 29 June 07 Venomous Snakes Found in Memphis--7 Arrested. (Amy Speropoulos)
Memphis, TN: A sting on illegal venomous snakes in Tennessee. The targets, cobras, exotic vipers, even rattlesnakes, all part of Operation Striking Distance. Besides snakes, agents seized alligators and turtles from homes across the state. Seven Tennessee counties were hit between Johnson City and Memphis and over 100 venomous snakes were found.
One bite from most exotic vemomous snakes can kill you and most people, at least in the State of Tennessee, who have them in their homes are not only gambling with the law, but with their lives. Chris Baker takes News Channel 3 to an area of the Memphis Zoo where few people are allowed to go, even then the venomous snake den at zoo, is off limits except for a quick glance through a usually locked door.
Our cameras were rolling as Baker shows us a confiscated venomous snake the zoo received a year ago. A bad tempered Western Diamonback Rattlesnake is one several housed in this area--but if "you" were housing this snake you'd be in violation of a state law. Baker says, "Private individuals are not well trained. They usually don't have the proper equipment. They don't have good secure caging, a good secure facility and they can't possess exotic snake bite anti-venom."
In a statewide undercover sting Tennessee Wildlife Officials seized more than 100 venomous snakes, alligators and turtles--taking a bite out of the trafficking of illegal animals. Almost a dozen people had snakes like this one in and around their homes. Baker says, "Many people who posses venomous snakes know that they are on the wrong side of the law so they don't advertise it."
The Memphis Zoo is one of only a handful of facilities statewide legally licensed to house venomous snakes and even then they have what's called a triple layer containment meaning all the snakes are kept behind several locked doors, a long way from where the viewing public is. Baker says, "There's no chance from an escape from a venomous snake from our containment facilities." Officials say that's not the case for people who bring snakes like this one into their home. We are told they even lack the medicine necessary to survive if they're bitten. Baker says, "It's a expieremental drug class and only approved facilites can import and receive exotic serum."
We are told the venomous snakes found in Memphis are the Gaboon Viper, the Sand Viper, the Chinese Cobra, the Western Diamonback, the Trans Pecos Rattlesnake, the Eastern Rattlesnake and Copperheads.
Venomous Snakes Found in Memphis--7 Arrested.

Of course, the article FAILS to mention that treatment for all North American crotalid bites (with the exception of C. scutulatus) is the SAME...CroFab is used, whether the offending snake was an atrox or horridus....(only in cases where antivenin is required of course!)

Leave it to the press to leave out a pretty important little detail....

-AzAtrox

Contrary to this article I know of several private hot collections that are very well kept. Several put some zoos to shame. Especially if you know how to spell "venomous"! LOL
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Wish I could edit the above to "Eastern Rattlesnake".
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

I wish the news media would get it right also...but they are far from biologists. I guess that's why they do what they do. As for the bust, I guess it you're going to play, you better be ready to pay...and they will.

Reference Crofab and scutes. Crofab uses scute venom to produce the antivenom. It works very well on scutes but not so well on horridus and molossus.

Jim Harrison

Hi Jim. The package insert for CroFab lists fairly low mouse ED50s for horridus (6 for nominate and 7 for atricaudatus). The ED50 for scutulatus at 15 is actually higher than horridus. Helleri is the worst at 122 with molossus second worst at 25. I realize these are mouse numbers so maybe not reflective of the clinical situation in humans.

Do you know of any reports of horridus envenomations in people that were treated with CroFab? I surfed around a bit but couldn't find anything.

Regards,
Wasil

Yes I know of a few. Email at reptilezoo@bellsouth.net for more details.
Jim

.

Sheesh! I'm a big believer in safety, and all my hots are (at least) in locked cages in a locked, sealed room (double layer), but they make it sound like they're nuclear weapons or smallpox or something.
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What goes up must come down...unless it exceeds escape velocity.

why on earth does this zoo have venomous reptiles?? very few people can see them? and then just a quick glance thru a piece of glass in a door? if your not exhibiting them to the public, as a zoo, what's the point of having them?

well, consider the source, I suppose there is a 50/50 chance of the report being grossly inaccurate.

Steve

The Memphis Zoo actually has a pretty nice herp house with lots of venomous on display just like any other zoo. In fact, they have one of the best-looking king cobras I've personally seen.

I'm not sure if it's the same guy quoted in the article, but once while visiting the zoo, I did speak to one of their herp keepers. He did express pretty apparent concerns and dislikes with private people keeping venomous. From what I understand though, this is a line of thought prevalent in many (most?) zoo circles. Not all, mind you, but many. We have some very supportive zoo employed folks right here on the forum. It's just unfortunate so many let their 'special' status go to their heads, and they get the "we are the only ones capable of properly dealing with this creatures" mentality.

However, in light of all that, the article did portray pretty accurately TN's situation on venomous keeping. Considering that state doesn't grant permits to anything but zoos and professional organizations (from what I understand), you can bet that every one of these guys caught in this sting knew fully well they were breaking the law.

I'm just glad they took the animals to the zoo instead of destroying them.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

"We have some very supportive zoo employed folks right here on the forum. It's just unfortunate so many let their 'special' status go to their heads, and they get the "we are the only ones capable of properly dealing with this creatures" mentality."

I hope your talking about me Chance!(being supportive) LOL!

Randal

Hah, well of course Randal. I was actually referring to you directly.

I'm pretty sure I had a short conversation with this Baker guy once while visiting the Memphis Zoo (that, or it was one of his underling keepers), and he certainly wasn't abashed at expressing his disdain for the private ownership of venomous reptiles. At the time I had boomslangs, and he simply couldn't fathom why anyone would want to keep them and that "zoos don't even keep them because they're so dangerous." It was just one of those smile and nod situations, as I knew I wasn't going to get anywhere. He didn't get hostile or anything though, fortunately.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

I guess my concern was that they seemed to say that no one can really see the animals in the zoo that was mentioned...

is that what you guys got from the text?

I mean, what is the point of having them in a zoo if folks can't see them?

Steve

Of us having them in our home if no one else but a select few get to see them???
Zoos also do captive breeding programs... Animals that are in breeding programs are usually not on display...

I know some zoos rotate the displays as well... You do not see half the animals that the bigger zoos have on any one visit... Larger zoos have lots of animals that are not out for public viewing...

You would find this out very quickly with a "behind the scenes" tour of any big zoo...

I'm not a zoo, therefore I don't feel the need to display my collection...I don't think it's implicit that a private individual display his/her collection. Seems that it is with a zoo (esp. if they receive public funding, I'm not saying they do, as I don't know, but IF they would, etc. etc.)

I think for a zoo to have a section of venomous animals and not display them would be ridiculous. However, my guess is the article is incorrect.

Steve

...def. of zoo:

1 a : a garden or park where wild animals are kept for exhibition b : a collection of living animals usually for public display.

These animals if taken as evidence in a crime can not be displayed until the case is cleared. Also zoo's often recieve animals from law enforcement that they have no display space for.
One other point is quarantine. All animals should be quarantined for at least 6 months.

Jim Harrison

...that makes sense.

Most zoos do get public funding in some shape or form and I do see your point, but there is more to consider. Like Jim Harrison mentioned, quarantine is a HUGE one. Another is that zoos will get in animals they do not necessarily want, and do not fit a display. Many animals for many reasons, be it health, behavior, or space restrictions, can not make it on display. Just because they get funding does not mean it is unlimited, and it is expensive to add exhibits.

In the end, the primary focus of any live animal exhibit should be the animals. They should be getting the best care possible, and if this means they have to live off exhibit for a long time as simply a candidate for exhibit, this is the way it should be. Like many things in the world, there is a point in having it besides people getting to see it. Sometimes people seeing it is not in the best interest of the animal. Maybe in time it will be, but they at least deserve an acclimation period.
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Gavin Brink
Wildlife Program Coordinator
Midwest Museum of Natural History
425 W. State Street
Sycamore, IL 60178
www.mmnh.org
(815) 895-9777
Toll Free: 1-800-895-MMNH
Cell: (815) 761-7995
e-mail: Wildlife@mmnh.org

....another very sensible reply...

Steve

The Memphis Zoo has well-developed venomous displays. Chris Baker is the hots curator. Since taking over this position within the past few years, he has expanded the zoo's collection. He is very professional and education-minded. Granted, the posted article was poorly written; it was a synopsis of a television news spot.

Tennessee has some of the roughest herp laws in the nation. For example, it's illegal to privately keep a turtle. Inside the Memphis city limits it's illegal to bring a legal exotic reptile into a public venue; ie. no walking with the Bci around the block or you're subject to arrest and fines.

These 7 people knew they were breaking the law. No pity here, since it only opens the door for the laws to become even more restrictive for law abiding herp keepers. If they wanted to keep hots in the Memphis area, they should've moved it down the road a few miles to Mississippi. Several keepers I know of personally have done just that. As for the rest of us, we lurk in the venomous forums, hot herp keeping vicariously through you folks who keep 'em legally; and holding our breaths that our boids and colubrids won't be the next to be banned.

rgds,
althea

the citizens of TN feel much safer now. What a good use of taxpayers money.

I'm sure all the people who hate snakes are feeling better...most people are very scared of snakes...like most of the people in my family.

That article was a big blow to the private herp keeping community. But even more, that paper should be ashamed people are trying to read it.

A few folks already mentioned the snake mistakes, but if I was Baker, I would be pretty upset to have my quote printed with three grammatical errors.

"It's a (AN) expieremental (EXPERIMENTAL) drug class and only approved facilites (FACILITIES) can import and receive exotic serum."

Oh…and there was not "over 100 venomous snakes," there was "more than" 100 venomous snakes. But maybe the state of Tennessee gave up on the rules of grammar so they could keep their minds enforcing the rules for uneducated snake folk.

But what do I know? I just work with snakes for a living.