Reptile & Amphibian Forums

You guys are a little slow and naive. All the animals I sell are CAPTIVE BORN. How are you going to prove that they aren't in court?

It is already legal to sell WC. We can have people removed from positions at TPWD if they push an unpopular agenda. There are lots of things that can be done. It does NOT have to be the "secret" organizations way. Most hobbyists I know don't see it the way the "secret" organization does. Your group is a splinter organization that 1) does not represent all hobbyists 2) is very naive to think that you will get what you want 3) don't realize there are hundreds of other options then to just give in to PETA and academia.

If we be nice to TPWD and let them take commercial road collection away they will give us back road collecting as long as we promise and cross our heart to not sell a wild caught animal. DON'T BE DUMB!

Mike Welker
El Paso, TX

Barring a new legislature, and a complete leadership turnover at TPW, the status quo is NOT coming back. Get used to it. Move on.

I think any unbiased observer who had been watching this situation develop would agree that our view reflects the majority of interested HOBBYISTS.I frankly don't know what the problem is. If you insist on selling wild caught reptiles, clearly it is time for you to get organized with others who feel the same way and attempt to influence policy. Commercialization of wc animals from Texas roadways is clearly a non-negotiable issue for you. I wish you good luck.

Brad Chambers

Brad,

News flash! You and your small group of gray-band hunters do not represent the thousands of hobbyists out there. Sad but true. You guys are just dudes on a forum, man.

I have never asked for status quo. Never,never,never. You have never ever heard me say that. You guys are so warped in your fantasy world that you just will not listen to reason. Your minds are clsoed and that is sad. You don't realize the implications of your actions for yourselves or anyone else. Sad, sad, sad.

Mike Welker
El Paso, TX

>

And yet, we're the only ones who've actually been out there working for a solution-even getting meetings with legislators and TPW- instead of whining about what we're entitled to and how excluded we are..

I'm really losing my patience with the insults-either join us and go along with some kind of compromise, or take a hard line and form your own group.

Brad Chambers

Brad,

I apologize for the insults. I am losing my patience with some of y'alls hard line opinions as well. I will be happy to join you guys if we can work something out that conserves herps but allows a private person to harvest and sell (maybe with bag limits) wild caught animals for captive propagation, researchers, zoos and museums.

If you guys continue to take a NO commercail what so ever approach then I just can't allow that to happen. Because I believe that if you continue with a NO commercail what so ever approach you would be hurting the hobby as a whole because of the problem with telling apart CB from WC if recreational collecting is allowed. In other words, there would be a loophole that TPWD would not know how to police against and it would end up shutting down ALL collection.

It is very, very hard to get things back once they are taken away. Right now it is still legal to sell wild caughts. In September it will be legal to sell only certain wild caughts (the ones with the most demand which is why the "White List" doesn't make sense from a conservation stand point). It is also still currently legal to collect herps from private lands and national forests in TX.

Mike Welker
El Paso, TX

you can't currently sell wild whitetail deer but you can legal sell whitetail deer under a breeder permit. Quite likely, there are some wild deer that get sold under these permits, but who can tell?

We will sell TPWD and the Reps on a captive breeders permit because:

1)TPWD already has them in place for deer
2) other states like Louisiana have them
3) TPWD has already stated (at Commission hearings, no less - look them up on their website) that they need to work on the development of captive-breeder permits . . . after they get their current commerical permit system re-vamped (also note that IMHO the "white list" wouldn't have generated anywhere near so much complaint if it hadn't sounded "wierd"

Troy

As herpers, we have to steer away from the mammal analogies and stick to the fish analogies.

It only hurts our case to directly compare herps to mammals, especially large mammals when the reality is that a herp and a fish are perfectly analogous.

It is gone! What part of law, in effect immediately, did you not get? I say take it to the Forests and private land then. You will be hard pressed to find a Forest nearby...........
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Todd Hughes

not attacks.

You CLEARLY illustrated a PROBLEM, please help us FIND a SOLUTION.

If you can do that, prepare to be amazed at how the "secret society" of "gray-band hobbyists" embraces you.

Some context may help you with the commercial take issues. When Todd K and TPWD say "we are concerned about commercial take" the reference is to 84,000 (reported) WDRattlesnakes in three years and 300,000 Turtles exported to Asia for soup.

Clearly there is wiggle room for the Mike Welkers of the world. Some commercial take is warranted for the pet trade in certain species, otherwise a black market will flourish with inflated market prices and higher than normal demand. This scenario was clearly illustrated from 1977 to 1987 in Texas.

So again, Please Mike, if you focus half as much energy at finding solutions to the problems, you, and we will do well.

We (the secret society) have outlined a process that involves a step by step process. The first steps are to identify the REAL problems, and come up with workable solutions that have real world applications and benfit EVERYONE invloved, from TPWD, Mike Welker, the general public, the ranchers, and the non-game resources most importantly.

Joe,

I have posted many solutions on these forums but I will be happy to work on researched and written solutions so that we can use them to make proposals to the "powers that be".

I will research all the issues surrounding commercial take and make some suggestions that we can analyize and get feedback on. Then I will take all of the feedback and try and come up with some workable solutions that everyone can be happy with including the "powers that be".

Mike Welker
El Paso, TX

Mike, you are just another dude on a forum, and stop callin' us grayband hunters, we are herpers, geez, get it right!
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Todd Hughes