Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, so I house all my hatchlings in their own shoe box. They have a hide, a water dish and a paper towel for substrate. After the babies had shed, I fed everyone. I put the pinkie (F/T), in the tub with the snake. I check a couple hours later to make sure they eat.
The little guy pictured below shed fine, ate its first meal. When I checked on it a few hours after feeding, all was fine. Pinkie was gone, snake had a small bulge.

I go to do my feedings and water changes three days later and find this snake as pictured. I find the pinky had been regurged off to the side, a few inches away.

Can someone come up with anything that might explain what went wrong? I have never had anything like this happen before.

It kinda reminds me of the hoop snake that has been posted before. I wont say by who, for fear this post might get deleted.

Anyway, any ideas?

(the little thing on the snake looks to be the start of a new shed - but the snake had shed fully about 4 days before....? go figure)

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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Life is Killing Me"

I didn't really say the obvious....the snake was dead. It was stuck in the position pictured.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Life is Killing Me"

I've heard of snakes biting themselves in the throws of death.
My guess is that is what happened.

The snake had something wrong with it, regurgitated, and bit itself while dying.
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3.6 L. getula californiae - 16 eggs (Cal. King)
1.1 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - 14 eggs (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

The snake had something wrong with it, regurgitated, and bit itself while dying.

This was my thought exactly. I've seen snakes of all ages and various species bite their own body as they are in the process of dying. Why they do it is a mystery, but they do...it's fairly common.

That snake probably had some type of problem and would have died regardless of anything you did or didn't do.

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Mike Heinrich,
708-428-5616
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
http://www.amazontreeboa.org

I'm going to third this reply, as I've witnessed it too.

Odd behavior indeed, but who knows what's going on when the neurons aren't firing correctly before death.

- Liam Sevier
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www.SevierSerpents.com
Phoenix, AZ
View Our Gallery | MySpace Profile

>>I didn't really say the obvious....the snake was dead. It was stuck in the position pictured.
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>>****Misty****
>>

It kind of looks to me like....although he had shed he may not have shed completely. I have seen this cause a regurge before.
He had probably crawled accross the pinky and smelled it on himself.
He still had an apetite and basically chose the pinky smell on his body over the less desireable smell of the regurgitated pinkie.
It looks like he got a tooth, or teeth, stuck in his own back and couldn't release.
I can't really figure out why this might have killed him but I guess it could be possible that the odd angle obstructed his airway.

Obviously all speculation but about all I can figure.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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Probably not but.....Any chance that there was something wrong with the pinkie? was it bad? Did you have anything on your hands that might have gotten onto the pink then to the snake?

Just throwing out some thoughts. Sorry to hear about this.
Rob
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"I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa-Ziggy
1.0 Creamscicle motley corn--Cozmo
0.1 Creamscicle corn--Wanda
0.0.1 Normal corn
0.1 Black Pine - Spazz
1.0 Eastern King-Ozy
1.0 Bearded Dragon - Gomer

I really don't think the death position has anything to do with why it died. However, it doers indicate the death wasn't just a slow die in sleep thing..it was fast and uncomfortable enough for the snake to lash about. What exactly killed it, can't say. Could have been many things and would only be guessing. A necropsy by a vet is the only way to know why it died.
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PHLdyPayne

What caused the regurgitation and subsequent death is not known, but the biting is easy to explain.

First, just like other animals (including humans), some snakes come into this world with one or more malfunctioning parts. Since its siblings are okay after eating the same batch of pinkies, poisoning is not likely. The regurgitation could be because of a malformed or even a missing stomach. The esophagus could have been constricted. Whatever caused the regurgitation, we may never know, but we can zero in on the vicinity of the problem.

By our standards, snakes are not rocket surgeons. By virtue of not being EXtinct, they are however, masters of INstinct. When attacked, snakes will respond. In this case, the snake was attacked from within, but he/she didn't know that. If a predator were to seize that snake, it would turn around and bite the attacker. That's what this snake did. It bit the location of the pain. Their brain isn't designed to allow them to know the difference between externally inflicted pain and systemic pain. Hence, if you necropsied that snake, you'd likely find the problem right where the snake told us it was. At the bite site. This is why so many snakes bite themselves before dying from acute afflictions. They're defensively responding to pain stimulus.
South Mountain Reptiles

That bite is very near the heart . . .
South Mountain Reptiles

Thanks Don, This satifies my question completely.

Yes, all the siblings are fine, they ate the same batch of pinkies, and are housed in the same rack, exactly the same way. So I am assuming it was something genetically wrong with this one snake.
thanks again to everyone who responded.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Life is Killing Me"

I think you got it Don.
Best explanation I've heard yet for the self-biting phenomenon.
Sorry you lost your little one Misty.
Hope all the others make it.

John D.
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat "Roberta" RELEASED!!!

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That is great information !!!!
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____