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?'s about getting a dragon

shannon20019 Jul 02, 2007 08:19 AM

Hey Ya'll!! I'd just like to first say that I have read many posts on here and all of them have been so helpful..some kinda scary but most reassuring! so here goes..my husband and I have decided to buy a bearded dragon.We also have 2 children and feel that the beardie would be best for the whole family. there are just a couple of things that I'd like ya'll to help me with:

1. is it okay to buy a habitat already put together...like home in a box kinda thing. Our local petsmart had one(for bearded dragons) that was $150.00...came with all the bare basics to get ya started.(I know it was a 20gal.. I would list everything that was in it..but can't remember and it's not offered online) or is it just better to buy everything seperate and make sure you get what is "best" for the beardie(or if anyone has purchased this before and can say whether it's worth anything)...don't want to plug the thing in and it blows the day before I get the beardie!!..lol I want to make sure it has the best of the best that I can afford!

2. also the lighting thing is confusing me a little bit...If someone wouldn't mind just letting me know what they personally use or how they do it..just so I can get an idea..I've been to tons of sites that "tell" you what's best and have listed what's "best" but I guess I'm just a visual person..so reading is one thing but seeing is another!!

This will be the first reptile we've ever owned...which when I was young my mom wouldn't let me near a lizard much less keep one in her home...so this has been sort of a dream for me...lol We know we have the space, money and the time to devote to a beardie and I just want to make sure I do it right the first time and don't have to bury a beardie in a week and try to heal a 5yr old's broken heart...lol
Is everyone done rolling their eyes and saying "I hate soon-to-be beardie owners"...lol I swear, for me, this is like having another baby!! I'm nervous and so excited!!! thanks ahead of time for all your help!!

Replies (5)

BDlvr Jul 02, 2007 10:44 AM

First of all I'd buy a well started Beardie from a breeder rather then from a pet store. Dachiu.com is a great place to get one from. There are also many other breeders or you can look here in the classifieds. You should get a healthy 6 - 7 inch dragon rather than a newly hatched living in sub-standard conditions in a pet store. Also at that size you will be able to specify sex. I would suggest a male as your first dragon.

As far as supplies I'd get them online rather than in a pet store, you will get way more for your money. Petmountain.com, lllreptile.com, and herpsupplies.com are all good full line suppliers that I have used frequently.

Now as far as supplies. I'd buy the enclosure locally since many online suppliers won't ship glass terrariums. I would recommend you get a 30 or 40 breeder enclosure. Zilla sells critter cages with sliding screen tops that work well. A 20 long will only last you a month or so and then you'll need larger. I would start your dragon on reptile carpet as substrate. Zilla and Zoo Med sell this. You will need UVB lighting so I would look for a 36" fluorescant fixture at Home Depot, Walmart, Target etc. You need one that has an inset bulb so you can lay it on the screen top. Flukers sells a nice one in the reptile world but it is pretty expensive. Then I would get a 36" Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0 fluorescent bulb. $15 from petmountain.com vs. 40 in a pet store.

Then get a clamp lamp (I like the Exo-terra glow in the dark ones) and a spot bulb. I'd get a 50 and a 75 watt Zoo Med Basking spot bulb $4 each at petmountain. Get a digital thermometer with a separate probe. You will put this on the basking spot to get the temp. right (115 for babies) I'd get a Kricket Keeper to house your Crickets. You'll need Calcium w/D3 (No Phosphorus or Vitamin A) and a multivitamin (No vitamin A) RepCal is the best brand for this. You need small low water and food bowls.

Then you just need something for a raised basking spot. You can look around for wood in a pet store if you want or use tile or stone. Whatever you decide just be sure to disinfect it with a 10% bleach solution and rinse well prior putting it in your dragons tank. Whatever you use just be sure it is stable and secure so that it can't be toppled by your dragon. I personally like a piece of slate tile sitting on 2 of those 1/2 logs.

I would start your baby with 2 - 3 feedings of Calcium dusted crickets per day. Once a week dust with the multivitamin instead of the calcium. I would offer a mixture on mustard greens and romaine between live feedings to start. Here is a great site for nutrition info. I would just hold off on the vegs. until 8-10".

http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html

Well that's about all I can think of right now. If you have any other questions everyone here will be glad to help.

PHLdyPayne Jul 02, 2007 03:34 PM

I agree with BDLvr about buying the dragon from a breeder instead of a pet store. Most pet stores do not know much or anything about the proper care of dragons.

That 20gal kit for $150 is a waste of money even though I don't know what it comes with. The ones I have seen in stores contain about 50% crap or more. YOu can buy a 20gal tank for $10 used or less. It doesn't have to be able to hold water, just your dragon. Kits like this that i have seen contain a heat rock (horrible for lizards and snakes alike, though newer types are a bit better in the fact they have a built in thermostate to help regulate how hot they get. But dragons are made to gauge heat from above, not below, so often they will burn themselves trying to warm up. So heat rocks (or hot rocks) are a no no for bearded dragons.

Stick on dial type thermometers. Not accurate, only measure air temp. not basking temperature. A digital thermometer with probe, under $10 in most department and home hardware type stores, much better. You can place the probe directly on the basking spot and get a much more accurate reading. Temperature guns are the best to get, but are a bit more costly (not hugely though). Point and shot and you get surface temp very quickly.

Any and all calcium based sands. These are almost always in the kits. Total waste of money. The calcium in these sands is far to coarse to be digested, it clumps up and has a high risk of causing impaction. Crushed walnut is worse.

Some kits even have under tank heaters. Again, useless for bearded dragons. Great for snakes, but for lizards, except maybe the burrowing kind, totally useless.

Things to get:

35-40 gal long tank or breeder. This will be do your dragon till they are about 14-15" long head to tail tip (roughly till dragon is 6-8 months old). After this, you will need to move your dragon into the adult size cage which has at least 2'x4' floor space. It may be even more feasible to buy the full adult cage first, use some cardboard to divide it in half...and increase available size as your dragon grows. Or go with one small and one big cage, and buy something else later for the smaller cage (leopard geckos perhaps, corn snake, etc.. whatever can fit comfortably in a 35-40 gal tank as an adult).

Hooded light fixture. Zoo med makes these, or Exo Terre...very expensive though. Hardware store sells them for much cheaper, do the same job. Just make sure it is rated for more than the wattage of bulb you plan to use. Though you can put a higher watt bulb into them, it greatly increases chances of fire, so not recommended. Insurance may not even cover you if they find out a fire was caused by a fixture with too high a bulb in it. For bulbs higher than 75W, I definitely recommend getting ceramic or similar fixture. These tolerate heat much better than plastic. Plastic fixtures, even rated for 120 watts or more, will melt. I have had this happen before.

Florescent tube style fixtures. You can buy a hooded fixture at most reptile and fish supply stores, or you can buy a double florescent tube fixture (workshop style with cord) for cheap at a hardware store. Place one UVB producing tube (exo-terre or zoo med brands are typically the best, called repti-glo and repti-sun). 5.0, 8.0 or 10.0 rated is best. An alternate is using mercury vapor bulbs especially designed for reptiles and produce uvb at higher rates than the florescent tubes. But there are some special considerations with these bulbs. They have to be mounted completely vertical, without any tilt, else this burns out the bulb quickly. They have to be at least 18" above your dragon's basking spot, or they can cause eye irritation. They do produce heat as well but sometimes they are too far away to raise the basking spot high enough temp wise so secondary heating may be required. I wouldn't use these bulbs for baby dragons, save them for adults, mostly because the cage size makes it more difficult to set them up properly for younger dragons.

Basking spots. Make sure these are wide, too many people use too narrow basking spots..it looks like their dragons are hanging onto them for dear life...which isn't comfortable for your dragons. These should be wide and sturdy, at least wide enough as the maximum width of a dragon's body when laying down flat. For adults, this can be 6" wide or more. Basking area in a baby tank of course, doesn't meed to be 6" wide, but the adult cage should have wide basking spots.

You can use wood, bricks, tiles, rocks, heat resistant plastics, etc. Really only limitation is it should not be easy to burn or absorb wastes. Wood of course, can absorb wastes so should be sealed if possible. Or deeply cleaned every few months or more, if often soiled by your dragon.

Store bought wood can be used as is, if it is being sold as safe for aquariums or reptiles. Some may need to be mounted on a base, to ensure it doesn't roll over or tip. Mounting on a base will make it easier to raise it at an angle etc to better position it under a basking area. Large pieces of driftwood that have been cleaned and disinfected, make great basking spots. Other 'wild collected' wood should be free of mold *ie dry pieces, not moldy and soft) and baked in an oven for 2-3 hours at 200-250F to kill any critters and germs. Or you can soak it in a bleach solution (10% bleach) for 20-30 minutes and throughoutly rinsed in cold clean water,l then rinsed again and even more, till no scent of bleach can be detected. Let air dry in a well ventilated area till dried completely (outside under direct sunlight works great).

Substrates: for babies, best substrate to use would be plain paper towel or newsprint. Not fancy but easy to clean and disinfect and cheap to get. Other substrates can be non stick shelf liner, reptile carpet (have two pieces cut to fit the tank, so while you are cleaning one, you can put the other into the cage), tiles or plastic table cloth (the kind you see on banquet tables at weddings etc). For dragons over 10" washed children's play sand can be used instead of the others. Or you can stick with non particulate substrates.

As mentioned before, don't use calcium based sands, crushed walnut, any wood based substrates, corn cob, or grain based (millet, rabbet pellets, hay, wheat bran). Most of these are all high impaction risks if ingested (and since dragons taste their environment with their tongue, they are bound to get some into their mouths). The grain based, pellets and hay, mold when wet, swell when ingested and often come with grain mites or moths...which fly around the house making a pest of themselves.

BDLvr covered most of the other basic considerations so I won't repeat any more here.

The best thing to do is research everywhere, not just here in the forum. Check care sheets on other websites (google will lead you to many), not the inconsistences, as there is no one single perfect way to keep bearded dragons, variations can and do work. I suggest no particulate substrates for dragons, as this eliminates the risk of impaction. Washed children's play sand has a much lesser risk than other substrates, but still, it has its risk. Also, it can harbor smells and bacteria...as waste material sinks through and though most can be collected with a scoop, some still falls through and is mixed into the rest of the sand.

Get the Bearded Dragon Manual by Philippe de Vosjoli, 'Your Bearded Dragon's Life' by Liz Palika and any other dragon books you can get your hands on. They are great sources of information to have on hand.

Check the Events Callander on this site to see if there are any reptile shows in your area. A reptile show is a great place to buy a bearded dragon. You can talk with the breeders directly, see a wide assortment of bearded dragons (these are popular enough to be at any show) and get their number and business cards so you can call them if there are any further questions or problems. Any good breeder is very happy to help their customers. If they seem reluctant to talk and answer questions at the show, even if busy, good ideal to look for another breeder. Don't be afraid to question something if it doesn't seem right to you, breeders are very happy to answer questions and all breeders I have met at shows have been friendly and quite willing to 'talk shop' all day long. The true breeder is one who loves their animals and cares about them and how they will be treated in their new homes.

Learn how to detect a healthy dragon from a sickly one.

A healthy dragon is alert, sitting with head raised and eyes wide open (though babies may sleep alot, as they are babies, but if disturbed, they should instantly be alert and responsive) and if actively checking something out, their tail is curved upwards.

There shouldn't be any loose wrinkly skin, dirt around eyes or nose (or any sort of bubbling discharge), the vent area should be clean and clear, with no swelling or caked on feces). Watch for any moving black specks on your dragon, these can be mites or ticks. Toes should be all present as well as the tail tip. Missing toes or tail usually were nipped off by cage mates mistaking them for food. Though not a health concern, as long as the wounds are nicely healed up and show no signs of infection or going black, they do detract somewhat from the appearance of your dragon. However, if the dragon you like is otherwise perfect, but for a nipped toe or tail tip, buy him by all means. Breeder probably give you a discount.

Well, I didn't intend to write a book...but hopefully you found useful information in my long babble. I have included two of my bearded dragon setups from way back. The first is when my dragon was a baby not long after I bought her. Here she is about 8" long, in a 35 gal long tank. I mounted his basking spot on a wide board with a section of clothes hanger wire to give it the tilt. Basically just drilled a hole slightly smaller than the wire and glued with 2 part epoxy.

The adult cage is 5'x2'x2' in size. The final picture is the same cage but with all the cage furniture and dragon in. She is about 18" in that picture. She was my first dragon, don't have her anymore though. I wish I could find another piece of driftwood like that one, it was great as a basking spot. Gave her a great range of temps, from 120F at the tip down to 95F along the sides and far end of the driftwood. She loved the highest temp first thing in the morning and after she ate, later she moved to the lower ranges, when she wasn't stomping all over the cage.


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PHLdyPayne

shannon20019 Jul 03, 2007 10:06 AM

thank you all for answering my questions and being so helpful...I'm going to feel really stupid to ask this but I'm going to anyways...lol
so I basically get the day time heating and lighting and all that..but at night: do you just shut the whole thing down or do you leave a different light on?

PHLdyPayne Jul 03, 2007 01:14 PM

for the most part, there are no stupid questions..just good questions that are not asked

In most situations, you don't need night time heat. If your normal room temperature drops below 65F you may need supplementary heat, either a ceramic heat emitter or under tank heater (on a thermostat, so it doesn't get too hot). You don't need to raise the temp very high, just to 75F at the most, though 65-75F range is fine. As most room temps fall within that range, there is no need to heat things up at night.

Also, it is best to put UVB and basking lights on a timer, so lights come on and off at the same time each day. THis way you don't have to worry about getting up early to turn lights on at the same time every day, or even being at home in the evening to turn the off again.
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PHLdyPayne

HappyHillbilly Jul 03, 2007 02:06 PM

Hi Shannon!
I finally got around to posting a reply to your thread! LOL! What a task this has been.

I tried to post the last two nights but actually fell asleep reading the replies or typing a reply and ended up going on to bed instead. I’ve tried posting a reply twice today, only to have been interrupted by business calls & lost both posts by accidentally closing the browser.

BDlvr & PHLadyPayne have given you good advice and there's really nothing beneficial I can add to it, except for maybe a confirmation.

Some people like ordering their caging needs (water bowl, basking limbs, rocks, etc…) online, and this can work out good. However, this being your first beardie, I think you & your family will really enjoy shopping for these things in person. Plus, being new to the scene, you get a better idea of how things will look & work together. It can be a lot like shopping for the set of baby clothes to bring your newborn home from the hospital in.

Follow PHLdyPayne & BDlvr’s advice, you’ll be glad you did.

Have a good one!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

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