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Boa Cannibalism ???

frogman92 Jul 02, 2007 08:47 AM

Anybody ever experience this? On Sat aft, I did my normal weekly feedings for all my animals. I also fed my circleback babies, and everything seemed normal. I kinda remember one of the 7 being extra fiesty, and seeming like it wanted more than the 2 pups I gave it.

Anyway, I come in sun morning to check on things like I always do, and Im down to six babies and one is bloated beyond belief!! It ate one of its siblings!!!!! Im still shocked by this!! Obviously Im glad it was something more valuable, but it is still extremely bizarre to me!!

Ive been around boas for 15 years, and was always of the mindset that they did not do this?? Im assuming it must be a fluke. Maybe the one that got ate regurged and lost the batle for the pup?? Dunno...very odd.

Ben

Replies (6)

kblumenthal Jul 02, 2007 09:38 AM

Sorry to hear about your loss. There was another post on June 25th about this very thing (as well as other posts in the past). Here is the link:
Boa Cannibalism

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Kevin Blumenthal
www.blumenboas.com

RioBravoReptiles Jul 02, 2007 09:57 AM

>>Anybody ever experience this?
.
What you're describing seems to me to be a sort of SFE (stupid feeding error). Where a hungry boa grabs another because there has been food in or near recently and then one gets eaten. I'm not sure that's exactly cannibalism.
.
Back in the '70s I would make trips to the Miami importers and it was not uncommon too see 2000 baby Colombian boas in one cage.. many would be big and fat from eating another boa. Under those crowded conditions this would normally result in the boa dying. I don't think that under less stressful conditions it would be as dangerous to the health of the eater..
.
We do see these incidents reported, even sometiimes with larger Boas, but I don't think it's a 'natural' thing or that boas include other boas or snakes in their normal diet. Best plan is to keep them seperated.
.
Good luck.

-----
Gus
A. Rentfro
RioBravoReptiles.com
www.riobravoreptiles.com

"Perfectly healthy animals are a minimum requirement.. everything else is just salesmanship" gus

rainbowsrus Jul 02, 2007 10:18 AM

I personally have never seen it but there have been several reports of it her on the forum. Bottom line, it's always best to house them seperately to prevent this and ony other problems.

Hatchling racks are GREAT!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

skyslinger Jul 02, 2007 10:39 AM

must feed seperate and then clean the cage and animals of all scent before returning them. It is definitely best to keep seperate entirely or until they are full and digesting. But the smell of food is the trigger I think.
-----
Ty
Rat Race Solutions
www.ratracesolutions.com

hiss_n_herps Jul 02, 2007 12:03 PM

I have seen several posts regarding the so called canabalism issue and they all seem to have a very common theme. Operator Error. Please read this entire post so it make complete sense.

Here's the problem!

We keep the snakes together
We feed the snakes (either together or sepreate)
We put the snakes back together or leave them in the same cage that they all fed in.
That's the operator error!

POINT #1
All snakes operate from their Instincts. Almost all snakes regardless of the kind will get very active and start to hunt when they smell food. Since "we" are not the snakes, we can't tell if the animals are still hungry or if they are in deed done eating when "we think" they should be done.

POINT #2
If you are housing two or more snakes together that just ate, they will both smell like the prey items. If one of them is still hungry or still in hunt mode, they are instinctively going to be looking for more food. Once another food item is found, they will instinctively try to catch and constrict it. They don't care if it was one of their cage mates or not. All they care about at that point is that they are going to get more food. And as it is prooving out, by keeping our animals housed communally, "WE" are actually the primary cause of most the misfortunes of canabalism.

POINT #3
The prey item doesn't have to be moving or be warm to be sensed by the snakes. That is why they end up eating their cagemates. Case in point, I have several snakes that want to almost come out of their cages when they smell the feeders in the room and I have seen this sort of behavior in every thing from Balls to Green Tree Pythons and Amazon Tree Boas to Anacondas. Additionally, I have one male Red Tail and an Irian Jaya Carpet Python that refuse to try and constrict anything that is moving.

I have three simple solutions to this problem:

1) Always house your animals seperately.
2) Feed your snakes seperately and wait at leats 2 days before putting them back into the common enclosure.
3) After the snakes have eaten, soak them in luke warm water for 10 to 15 minutes to get the smell of the feeder animal off of them.

Here is a little trick you can try that works quite well. Put one to two drops of liquid dish washing soap into the soak water to change the smell (don't complain to me about this method, I modified one of the Mite treatment methods from the Barker's Ball Python book). I use SA8 but Dawn liquid detergent will do (you can't get SA8 in any stores, if you need to get some contact me and we can figure something out as I purchase this thru another business I was involved with). The dishwashing liquid method works quite well and will not harm the snakes at this low of a concentration. I actually use about 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water depending on the size of the snakes with the thought that larger snakes would tolerate higher concentrations. Make sure that if you use this method that you put the soap in the water after it is in the container and gently stirr it by hand to reduce the amount of bubbles that the soap produces.

Benefits of the soap:
1) removes the smell of the feeder animals.
2) works as an emollient like most shed aids.
3) Improves the sheen of the skin.
4) Makes the snake extremely presentable for picture taking.

Hope this helps prevent any furthere misfortunes.
Chris

hognose15 Jul 02, 2007 12:39 PM

When I have boas in shared space, I wait a good time before puting them back in. I put them directly in their water. It usually turns off "feed" mode and somewhat rinses the smell off.

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