Reptile & Amphibian Forums

After many years of trying to hatch chucks, I FINALLY have 3 hatchlings! MANY THANKS to TOM GREB who posted EXCELLENT incubation instructions for me in response to a posted question several years ago. As Tom said to do, I used vermiculite, soaked it in water, and squeezed out as much of the water as I could. A small plastic container with a single half-inch hole near the top was filled with this damp vermiculite and that's all the water that was ever used! The container was incubated at 88 degrees in a Hovabator.

My cute wild-caught chuck, Fran, had 8 eggs on 4-29-07. Two went bad right away. A third darkened and shriveled last week and I cut it open. Inside was a beautiful, normal-looking dead baby. The 4th and 5th eggs hatched yesterday! The 6th egg's baby poked its head out yesterday morning and then stayed there for hours. Last night, I finally decided the baby was stuck and used manicure scissors to extend by a half-inch the tear in the egg by the head. That baby popped out immediately so it might actually have been stuck. The 7th egg went bad over the last several days ... it also contained a dead, fully-formed baby still clutching what looked like HARD-BOILED YOLK. The 8th egg began to dimple yesterday, possibly due to all the opening and closing of the incubator and egg container. I was all set to cut it open today to see if I could save the baby before the egg started to rot but the egg looks good again so I left it alone.

The three hatchlings seem to be doing well but they haven't eaten anything yet except for quite a bit of adult chuckie poop. I have pics but don't know how to post them. Maybe the spouse will know how.

Four questions:

1) Why did the yolk become solid in the 7th egg? I frequently looked at the thermometer in the Hovabator and it was always between 88 and 90. Is the solid yolk the reason the baby died? I imagine solid yolk can't pass thru the umbilicus and the baby probably starved, right? Why would this one egg's yolk solidify while the others didn't? Just uneven temps thruout the Hovabator? This particular egg WAS the closest to the heating element.

2) Don't chuck eggs usually take 90 days to hatch? The three hatchlings came out after 63 days. Is that typical? I wonder if the babies are smaller than they should be (4" total length).

3) Is it OK that day-old hatchlings aren't eating yet? I offered tiny mealworms, collards, veggies, dandelions, and honeysuckle flowers. So far, there's been no interest that I've seen. They did crunch a large amount of adult feces right after hatching.

4) One of the hatchlings has a double-pea size gob of yolk or guts sticking out of its umbilicus. It's dry and hard. Will this likely absorb or fall off or is this hatchling in trouble?

Thanks for any responses to my questions, and thanks again to Tom Greb for taking the time to write out his awesome incubation instructions for me several years ago.

Sue Terry
Charlotte, NC

4th egg just hatched ... this baby also has a dark red, double-pea sized blob hanging out its umbilical region. Is this normal or OK?

About coprophagy (I think) - when the babies eat adult poop for inoculation purposes - is it better to use dry, crunchy stuff or damp, new stuff? Does it matter? Seems like the damp stuff would have more live microbes in it. But it's OH so gross-er!

incubator until this is absorbed. They might have hatched a little premature. They should be fine though.
Tom

to reply. As far as your questions:
1.The baby probably died a week or more ago and the hard yolk is a result of the baby passing not vice versa. This is just a guess. Sometimes these things happen. Could be caused by a number of things but more than likely something lacking in the adults. Really not sure just a guess. Sorry I can not answer better. There is a great book by Gunther Kohler on egg formation, developement and hatching. It was a little dry for me but know of several people that really liked it. It explains everything! You can probably get it at Bibliomania.
2.Again so many things can have an effect on this. Humidity and temp. Mine always hatch from 65 to 75 days. The thermometer may even be off. Could have been a degree warmer. I think even barometric pressure can have an effect.
3.Don't worry chucks can take up to a month or longer to really take off. Mine never eat for the first week. Good job offerring the adult feces. Keep it in there for a month. Make sure you offer water in this time so they do not become dehydrated. I mist the cage twice a day. They will hide buut then come out and lap water from the rocks. Offer very finely chopped moist greens. I usually start with romaine for the first 2 months then switchh to the more fibrous greens. Just make sure they stay hydrated. I usually do not offer any supplemnets until I start with the more nutritious greens. It doesn't really matter if the adult feces is dry or wet. I think they like the dry stuff better.
4.Sue I usually leave them in the incubator until this disappears but I don't think pulling them out will hurt them. Just leave it alone and it will schrivel up and fall off.
Tom

Thanks, Tom, for more excellent advice. Those two babies with blobs hanging out are still with us and the blobs are drying up. I WONDERED if I should leave them in the incubator ... didn't, and so far, so good, but next time I'll know. Would NEVER have known to keep adult poop in the cage for a MONTH! Really happy to have that factoid. Thanks!

Wow! That misting instruction was life-saving! One of the little guys with the drying umbilicus blob looked pretty thin and wrinkly. I hadn't thought about water since the adults never drink any except right after egg-laying (at least that's what I've observed). As soon as I misted the walls of the babies' terrarium, all of them helped themselves to the moisture and that least-robust baby drank and drank. It stood there for at least 10 minutes, constantly lapping. Whew! Would have lost THAT one for sure and possibly all of them had you not told me about misting! Thanks!

That's awesome girl, glad to hear the kids have made it out and a few more chucks are in the world

It feels like such a wonderful accomplishment when you finally get some youngins, just puts a big SMILE on your face, but only for a brief time, then it turns into worry, hehehehee like with all kids, lol

Congratulations and if ya can't post those pics we would be glad to help, I seem to remember you having a hard time making them smaller?

We have to see them, lol after all that time YOU MUST CELEBRATE and show them off!
Collared Lizard Intensive Care & Rehab/ Adoption Page

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PHEve / Eve

Thanks Eve, for the comments! Yep, that was me awhile back that was too dimwitted to post pics by myself. Tomorrow or whenever you have the time, we can work on that again. I have some really neat pics. Don't we ALL when we are lucky enough to have chuck babies?!? I'll write you tomorrow to get the ball rolling toward posted pictures! Thanks!

First of all, a big CONGRATS! Not being a chuck breeder but having experience with leopard geckos, I too would have recommended leaving the babies in the incubator for a few days if for nothing else but the temp regulation. I would add to the master's suggestion, though. I would keep them in a separate deli cup with paper towels. If they decided to lick the humidity from the vermiculite that could be a problem.

Good call on the poo thing. Can't wait to see the pics!
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Rick-Geckoland USA

Thanks for the comments, Rick. One thing for sure, this chuck forum is extremely helpful in sharing knowledge and helping a person learn how to do things the right way. I can sure see what you're saying about avoiding the ingestion of vermiculite. That could be a very sad and serious problem. Thanks again!

Glad to see you guys! On a sad note, and apropos of the vermiculite question, I lost my Isis this morning. She must be in her early twenties. (I have had her for 15 years). She actually laid 7 healthy-looking eggs on the 21st of June, but two days ago, she started gasping for breath and seemed to be trying to regurgitate. My other Chucks ate the same food, so I don't know how she got something different unless she had ingested some vermiculite all those weeks ago and was just now having a reaction. Has anybody ever had an experience with a lizard dying after egg-laying? (she was gaining back her weight and seemed so healthy). It really seemed like poisoning to me. If they can't manage to regurgitate, is there something they can be given to coat the stomach or help them pass what is ailing them? Can a resperatory infection strike and kill within two days? I'm very sad, but I think we need to ask these questions. This is such a wonderful forum, and as Sue says, the "factoids" are incredible.

Tell you what, this sad sceniario sounds a lot like what happened to my Bonnie several years ago. I had Bonnie and Clyde from hatchling stage to 15 or so years. Bonnie had many egg clutches (none of which hatched because I didn't know Tom Greb's incubation procedure at that time and was keeping the eggs WAY too wet). Producing eggs seems to be really draining to the moms. A real ordeal. When she was a pretty old chuckie lady, Bonnie entered a horrible gasping spell that eventually killed her. Unlike Isis, Bonnie did this for weeks. I tried gently to force feed her but that only aggravated the gasping. I wondered at the time if Bonnie was simply old and worn out and had developed congestive heart failure. Bonnie's problem may be totally distinct from Isis's problem, but our girls' ages and gasping behavior sure sound similar. What do you think?

Well, it sure sounds the same. Hmmm, congestive heart failure? I have one VERY old male, Oliver, Isis' mate over the past 15 years. He has been on "lizard hospice" now for about 6 months. He developed a tumor on his spine which left him hunchbacked. He has not been with any other lizards for those 6 months, but he wheezes and regurgitates a lot of what he eats. I figured it was the tumor growing inward which was blocking the food, and all his food is very finely chopped. Every day I expect him to fail to come out of his cave, but he just keeps on. He is senile and sometimes can't tell the plate from the food. He falls off the top of his cave, and he has difficulty walking, but he still does push-ups and he still wants to eat. I just try to keep him hydrated and figure he'll go when he's good and ready. Isis was a shock! But, like Oliver, she was a little senile and had an ataxic gait and arthritis in her elbows. She was old, but seemed so healthy. Let's see if anyone else has had these symptoms...

Man, are you coping with geriatric chucks, or WHAT?!? Oliver seems very pathetic, but it'll still be a sad day when he fails to come out of his cave, huh? My Clyde, who was paired with Bonnie who passed, is still going strong and is as feisty as ever. He lords over the lizard room constantly striving to get ahold of and eat all the other male chucks in the room. But then, he didn't have to produce all those eggs over the years; hence his sustained vigor.

It will be enlightening to see who else has had gasping chucks and what turned out to be the cause.

Sorry to hear about your poor chucks. I don't know what the gasping thing is all about. If you still have your chuck, on ice perhaps, take her to Dr. Greek. He would be anxious to perform a necropsy. He's done a few for me for free. It could be helpful to someone else in the future.

About the gasping. I'm not a vet nor play one on line but I don't think that's from vermiculite ingestion. The danger from eating vermiculite, or twigs, or anything else indigestible is impaction. That looks like malnutrition or egg binding even when the animal has a healthy appetite.

Egg laying itself is very stressful, too.

I hope this is helpful and not insensitive. My condolences for your loss, Maureen. I know your chucks are all given the best possible care. I've learned so much from you and over the years it's really enhanced my enjoyment of keeping these wonderful little guys.