Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I love these guys, nothing better than two of your favorite snakes in one neat little package...

>>I love these guys, nothing better than two of your favorite snakes in one neat little package...
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That is awesome. Wish a had the proper Lisc. I would love to add those to my collection.

Horridus,

That is a very nice hybrid, I am wondering how different the composition of their venom is ? I would think the combined types of enzymes could make a unique venom. They being in the same genera may make their venom "makeup" very similar. I would imagine there is enough difference to also mutant the venoms composition in the hybrid animal. I think more people should work with venomous hybrids and someone should also study the "created" venom's possibilities for use in the scientific community. One never can tell, but a hybrids venom may hold a chemical composition which may open door(s)to useful uses by the medical community.

Some one should contact Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry to see if he is interested in studying the venoms composition and also see if there is a possibility of a "new" venom with unique characteristics derived from the combination of the parents linage. I would want to study any venomous hybrids venom. The more distantly related the parents are the better. Science has found many interesting characteristics and possible uses for several different types of venoms in various herptiles. I would imagine this type of study is in uncharted waters. I find the possibility very interesting to say the least. Nice stuff, there must be a few different hybrids out there that most scientists know nothing about. BTW, very nice combination. Very nice and thought provoking!! I know Dr. Fry was very interested in any American hognose snakes bites that resulted in apparent Envenomations. Very, very, very interesting subject matter, his page is linked below.
Australian Venom Research Unit..Dr. Fry

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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

While not "scientific" by any means, I did offer some live feeders to some adult Eastern Diamondback X Canebrake hybrids I had and was amazed at the almost instantaneous paralysis and death that followed a glancing bite. Of course you couldn't come to any conclusions from this with so many variables not being known but it was rather impressive to say the least. The only crotalids I had seen with the same ability to kill that quickly were South GA Canebrakes from Brooks Co. (where some of the canbraketoxin animals are found) and one Eastern Diamondback from the panhandle of FL along the coast. I know that the two adult hybrids I have worked with don't have the placid demeanor sometimes seen with Cottonmouths. They are very nervous and vigorously defensive

I have to admit, this particular kind of hybrid have in my opinion many, many more interesting aspects well beyond mere esthetics, please post any you now of. Thanks!!!
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

It'd certainly be interesting to see how things have recombined. Where are you located?

Cheers
B
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Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
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Department of Biochemistry,
Bio21 Institute,
University of Melbourne
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http://www.venomdoc.com

I am in GA, if you would like, I have the one litter of hybrids, an adult hybrid from the same parents and a pure conanti from the same female in my collection that I could provide venom samples to you from. Please feel free to email me and advise as to how feasable this is, I don't know what needs to be done to keep the venom in a state at which the toxicity is not affected after extraction. You are of course welcome to come and see the animals yourself if you are ever in the area.

Horridus@aol.com

venomous hybrids are cool, is that a different hybrid below? where did the yellow tail come from?
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jake

my addiction:
0.2 normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1 amelenistic corn snake (maizy)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
1.0 albino cal king (zeus)
0.0.1 wc garter (zim)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

Both of the parent species, actually all NA Agkistrodon have the yellow or white tails as newborns. The lower photo in the original post is of the offspring from the breeding shown. Florida Cottonmouth X Southern Copperhead. Here's a photo of an adult male from the same pair of parents (taken by my good friend Mardi Snipes)

do they use this for caudal luring?
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

They do....I have seen it more with Copperhead and (interestingly enough) Dusky Pygmy Rattlesnake babies in captivity but I am sure they all do it in the wild. You see quite a few adult Duskys with no rattles, I'm sure some of them lose the tips of thier tails and as a result the ability to develop rattles through subsequent sheds from lizards or maybe larger predators like birds or rodents "taking the bait" when they are small. That has to be a hell of a surprise, sitting there trying to entice a small frog into range and a Wren or sparrow, which has to look like a Dinosaur to a baby pyg, flies down and bites your tail off LOL

Cantils are the most interesting in thier use of thier tails, they hold them above thier coils in a position that looks exactly like a old style shepards staff.....

that is some wild behavior, I would love to see it personally, that must be too awesome to witnesss.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Very Very nice horridus.

well done.

Paul.
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Uk-Hybrids.com

Horridus, we haven't meet yet, but we have a breeding project with each other coming up hopefully. We have a mutual friend in Chuck Hurd. And at a recent Reptile Show we both attended I was able to acquire one of the Female "Cottonheads" produce by Mardi in the same litter as your male. I believe Chuck was even happier than me considering that this hybrid is mine and Chuck's so called Holy Grail.....lol. I sent her with Chuck in hopes that he can get her to you for next season. (He told me about a friend of his with a Male in GA, and that he had also obtained the parents to the "Cottonheads", in turn I saw your post and saw the breeding pic and recognized the parent, so I then just put 2 and 2 together.)

Either way, hope to get some work in with ya, you obviously have had good luck with this project and it will be interesting to go for some F2's.

Quick side note: Myself and Mardi had a long time competition to see who could get a cross first, he started with the CopperXCotton project, and I started on the CantilXCotton project. Obviously he won....lol. Not ready to give up though.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Hey man, glad to "meet" you...shoot me an email. I am very excited about the prospect of breeding your girl to this male here. F2 Hybrids are always nicer than the original cross!

Horridus@aol.com

Major Congrats!!!! That is totally amazing!!!

Imagine the potential of breeding these hybrids!!! New anit venoms or maybe even neutralized venom in the new animals...I don't know what all...but I find it just facinating!!!

They look totally awesome as well!

Andy Federico
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np