Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK, we've all heard reports of strange snake sightings. I heavily discount most sighting reports I hear from non-herpers.

However, I heard a report yesterday that I can't get out of my head.

A local here on Terlingua Ranch has about 1000 acres with lots of permanent water, abundant trees, and incredible habitat. According to him, he has twice spotted a "lime green" snake with a slender body and large diamond shaped head. Both times, it was active during the day and spotted along rock and adobe walls. The description he gave sounded an aweful lot lot a vine snake.

Any thoughts?

Should I just tell him to step away from the Peyote?

Rough greensnake.

It would be a range extension.

Mike Welker
El paso, TX

I thought about rough green, but they are not from this area either. (Though closer than any green vine snake.)

One reason why I lean toward vine snake (or too many peyote buttons) is that I believe the former owner (about 2 years ago)of that land has family in Mexico.

Is it possible that a vine snake made the trip north with some visiting humans?

BTW, a report of a new subspecies of frog will soon be reported from that same area.

Here's a link to a website about the ranch where this green snake was sighted.

spirittracksranch.com/index.html

Eby,

That would be cool indeed....however, Vine Snakes are more brownish in coloration....below is a rough green snake from North Carolina....I have personally seen rough green snakes on Highway 277 and have numerous friends that have observed them in Sanderson......that is probably what it is......

Either would be cool. Either would outside their recognized range.

I agree that the rough green is the more likely suspect IF it is assumed to be a natural resident. However, the person spotting it is from Tennessee and didn't think it was like the green snakes he has seen back east.

Also, as noted previously, I think the former owner has family in Mexico (not sure what region). I'm curious about the possibility of this being a transplant of a green variety of Oxybelis (or something else?). I doubt seriously that it could be a natural occurrence of the brown Oxybelis aeneus (wrong area and wrong color).

FIND IT!

The green vine snake (Oxybelis fulgidus) definitely fits the description, but as you said either would be a significant find. I'll be down for a long weekend next month and a week in September-would be more than happy to help look!

Brad Chambers

I'll be showing some pics of Oxbelis, rough green, and (just for balance) racers to the guy that reported the sightings. Hopefully he will recognize one. Also, I'll try to get more info on the origins of past owners and visitors to the property.

If he offers me an invite, I'll check it out. However, he is a very private person and I will not push for an invite. Also, he's out in the area of the sightings day in and day out and has only seen it twice. My odds of spotting it during a random visit or two would be limited.

I lived in Lajitas for many years and encountered the same report from diff. people.I finally identified the two snakes.One,which in daylight quite often looks green and the other can have a green appearance.What surprised me the most is that these people never described a pattern of which they both had.One animal I caught was a trimorph and that person after seeing the animal close up understood it had a pattern even though before hand he swore it didn't.The other was an alterna and was also sworn by the person it was a solid green snake.It did have a light greenish gray appearance but the person did not notice the small aternates

I doubt it is Oxybelis because the only species it could possibly be due to habitat would be aeneus, which is brown. O. fulgidus would be way out of range and habitat.

Another more likely mexican species to consider (although still VERY inlikely due to range and habitat) would be Leptophis mexicanus.

However, my money is on a "greenish" Masticophis taeniatus. I have seen some out in far W. TX that were greenish gray.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

no text

I was just compiling some photo line-up for him to review and had M. taeniatus as one of the "suspects". However, I can't find any greenish images (though I've seen them out here).

Do you (or anyone else) have any good images of a greenish M. taeniatus?

I have caught lots of taeniatus and never seen anything that remotly looked green.They were all dark just like the field guides.

The owner of the ranch that I have access to on Blackgap mentioned a velvet snake. He said he had only seen two and it was greenish color. Both times were late afternoons in draws. He seemed to think it was venomous. Green Rat?

About 400 miles too fareast for a green rat-I'd once again suspect taeniatus-particularly since it was seen in daytime.

Brad Chambers

LOL, we are talking what ifs here, isn't that the point of this thread. I understand the bend is not in the range of Senticolis, nor Oxybelis, nor Rough greens for that matter. Green whipsnake? could be or it could be hallucinations brought on by extreme heat and a case of lonestar light.

LOL-good thing, Rak-I thought for a minute that you'd been out in the sun too long yourself!

Brad Chambers

I know the gophers and prairie rattlers in Brewster have a greenish tint if not whole green background. Maybe green is in down there. Also, rough greens lay eggs in potted plants all the time.
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Todd Hughes

they're known from the Davis Mts as well as at least one record along 118 north of BBNP. Not terribly green, but likely as green as some of these taeniatus some of you are referring to. The only taeniatus I've seen recently in that part of the world came from northwest Presidio County (and those guys were far from green).

However, with Hyla cinerea now established in BBNP, I wouldn't be surprised for something else to get a foothold in that part of the world too.
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travis
austin, tx

When was the coluber found north of BBNP? Was it ever officially recorded.

I had considered a racer as a strong possibility, but I've never heard of them anywhere near here (of course niether vine or green snakes).

In any case, a racer will definitely be included in the photo line up.

there's a specimen recorded in Werler and Dixon's 2000 Texas Snakes. Don't know when or where the specimen was deposited, but there's a dot on that map...
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travis
austin, tx

Probably the most reasonable suggestion. They are found in west Texas, but are quite rare. I have found a DOR in the Davis and I know that Forks found one north of Sanderson. I don't think that it would be too unrealistic to think that they may be in the Xmas.

Where is the fun in that?

I would go rough green, I have seen them on 277 last year, I know it is far away but lime green?
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Todd Hughes

Brown = Brown
Brown with a barely perceptible greenish tint = Green
Greenish Brown = Lush Green
Brownish Green = Lime Green
True Green = WTF
Lime Green = "No more peyote for me please"