Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm watching all the videos on HB 1309 from kingsnake, but wanted to know more about the constrictors aspects. It doesn't go into effect until September 1st, correct? So if I have the snake(s) prior to that date am I still affected? Also, I still haven't heard what species are actually affected, just that it's five constrictors and their subspecies. I have an RTB, which I don't know is included in this legislation. I was also planning on a yellow anaconda, which I'm sure would be affected. Anyway, will this be covered in the videos (I'm only on part 4), or is there another source I can check for this info. Thanks.

If you have:
(1) venomous snake; or
(2) constrictor that is one of the following:
(A) African rock python, Python sebae;
(B) Asiatic rock python, Python molurus;
(C) green anaconda, Eunectes murinus;
(D) reticulated python, Python reticulatus; or
(E) southern African python, Python natalensis.

Then you will need to get a permit, does not matter when you have it, and it needs to be done by Sept 1st despite the fact that nobody knows if you need to do it per person, or per animal...

Good luck on being compliant, and be sure to send your regards to Harvey Hilderbran District 53 Texas. This is just one of many examples the well thought legislation to come from his office.

Lance

HB 12 (See Section 41 for details)

I corresponded with Matt Wagner and he said that this would not go into effect until April 2008.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Based on recent track records I would take it all with a grain of salt... We have had some very differnt answers to the same question in recent past with stuff that was stuck to the bottom of HB 12.

Not well organized, not well understood, not well planned... That is the way of HB 12..

Lance

Lance,
I believe it's EXOTIC/NON-NATIVE venomous snakes thats on the bill.

Randal Berry

When does it go into effect, how do you get the permit, how much is the permit, do you need one permit per person, do you need one permit per animal, how will this be enforced, is TP&W going to be able to enforce this within current mandates and budget, and many many more questions...

The species impacted are clear, but not much else...

Lance

Agreed, I just didn't want people to think "all" hots are prohibited.

When I and Tim Cole and others were at the "early" mtg. with HH and Todd, prices for a yearly permit of $25.00 to $50.00 was bandied about.
They wouldn't or possibly couldn't say what the yearly fee would be if the HB had passed, but they insured us that it would be reaonable and it would cover your whole collection, NOT a permit for each reptile.

With that said, who knows what shenanigians they will try to pull off.

Randal Berry

....Can be adjusted in any direction.. any time..

This is why I say that this thing with 1309 is just not well planned at all, it is just a feel good pet project that slid in on HB 12.

I for one think this should be tossed off the books because it is just to vague. If they want such a thing on the books then it needs to be spelled out in detail in order to be passed. It is more of an "idea" than a "law" to me, you need to get it past the idea phase to make it a law, at least make the thing clear and concise.

I see two area of comcern with the HB1308 stuff that was tacked onto the bottom of HB12 as a rider.

In the original HB 1309 there was language refering tom venomous snakes not indigenous to "this country". In the language that went into HB 12 it just reads "non-indigenous". It no longer makes reference to "country"....so what does that mean mon-ondigenous to your city, your county, the State of texas, the United States, etc. It looks as if they are now leaving it up to TP&W to define non-indigenous and I would suspect that it will now be defined as non-indigenous to the State of Texas instead of being non-indigenous to this country as the original language read.

Also as I read HB 12 it sounds as if the possession and transportation of these animals in the state without a permit will be illegal as of 9/1/07. But the bill seems to give TP&W until April, 2008 to put a permit system into operation. Does anybody else see a problem with this situation....ie. after 9/1/07 you are illegal if you have those animals and you have no way to get a permit for them until April, 2008. So unlss you get rid of your non-indigenous venomous snakes before 9/1/07 you are in violation of the law and won't be able to get a permit until April, 2008.
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Gerald Keown
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
www.southwesternherp.com

Thanks everyone for the help. I appreciate it greatly. Well, I was under the impression that the permit was going to affect all species, so that any Eunectes sp. would be included. But if it's just gonna be the greens, then I guess I at least lucked out with getting a yellow.

How about the chances on getting this law repealed? Like in the videos, the issue of funding for enforcement was raised. I mean do you think this law will last? I guess it's a little early to tell, but we'll see.

I think it will be tough to enforce, but knowing TP&W they will try anyway.

The fact that this law is so poorly written and thought out though is in our favor to some degree. It will give you a chance to fight it if you need to, and it will also give us a just cause to modify or remove it from the books next session.

I think you can say that the "intent" of the law at the time was any venomous species not native to the USA.

And how about the road collecting. Ha, I forget if I read it here, or in other reptile forums, but others were suggesting that we not collect on public land, that we find private land to go herping on. I was wondering about this part, too, because I go out to the area just outside Hueco Mountains Park (I'm in El Paso) and walk around. But, if I have my snake gear and, if I happen to have a snake I caught while walking around off the road, how are they gonna know whether I caught it like that, or caught it off the road? Could they cite me just because I have the snake gear and animals even though they can't prove it was caught on the road? This really sucks, the way it's so vague and the questions on enforcement.

You have to be observed committing a violation or admit to committing a violation. Having the hook and the critter are not an offence of this new regulation.