Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I would like to preface this thread with the statement that irregardless of what the future may hold for my wife and myself in this business/hobby, we do it because we love animals and enjoy the time we spend together. Now to the point. I am always reading replies from people saying that "you won't get rich in this business/hobby" or "if you can just get it to pay for its self your doing good". But I also see people stating they are "full-time breeders" or that "they have just moved to a larger or new building". Are the people who are doing this full time already financially well off and the business is just a tax shelter? Or is it totally possible for someone to set up a successful full-time breeding operation and make a good living from it. I know the people who have been doing this for a decade or more got in at a good time and have more then payed their dues not to mention paving the way for us newbies and I am grateful for their successes and failures. But what I find myself wondering is this ideal of making a living breeding and selling reptiles just another pipe dream. So what I would like to know is how many hobbyist/breeders that have been actively working towards the goal of making a living in this trade and have been at it for less then five years feel they are on the verge of reaching their goal? I would also like to know your greatest achievement and worst set back thus far. As well as what you would have done differently. Thank you in advance for your replies and sorry for the wordiness.

Jeff

I'm sure there are plenty of people who are making a living breeding and selling snakes.

Me, I'm in it because I love snakes, but if I am one day breeding and selling $2000 snakes...I have no complaints.
Granted I am not at that point right now, and if I never get there, so be it...but I wouldn't mind if I did.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Kingofspades, Thanks for your reply. I have been keeping reptiles for over thirty years and believe me I definitely have a passion for it and love snakes. And I wouldn't be crushed or face financial ruin If we are not successful at pursuing our dream. Just trying to get a feel for how other people are doing and what are some of the pitfalls along the way. Let me ask you, how many snakes and what types are you currently working with? How many years have you been breeding? And if you decided today that you were going to go full-time how long do you think it would take you?

Thanks Jeff

I've been at this for five years or so, and even though I only breed 20 or so females a year, and I don't breed the high-end balls, I do ok, bringing in close to what I make at my day job. I still, however, have a day job though.
Look at it this way; lets say you don't want to spend every waking moment cleaning, feeding and watering snakes, so you decide to produce 40 clutches of 6 average eggs per clutch; that's 240 eggs of mojaves or spiders (~$600 morphs) half of your eggs (120) will be worth $600 each ($72000)and the other half will be worth roughly $40 on average per hatchling (assuming you keep nothing) ($4800). That's close to $80000 minus expenses for paper towels, rats, heating, racks, and start-up, you'll clear $65000 to $70000/annum. Is that enough for you to stay home? You'll certainly have enough time to still work with that limited number of snakes...
I think the millionaires in this business made their "big" money up until a few years ago. Now with the prices of balls actually at a more sustainable price, it's certainly evened the field out.
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www.strictlyballs.ca

Thanks Mykee. I have done the same math many times. It looks good on paper. Alot of variables though.

Jeff

I've been keeping snakes since I was 15 or so, off and on...(I'm 25).
This is my first breeding season coming up and I only have a male pastel and 2 female normals that are breeding size.
I have another female in the 300 gram range, and two others in the 150 gram range...so it'll be a while for them.

If I went full time...well...it'd be quite a while and I'd most likely have to take out a hefty loan to bankroll the operation...so it's unlikely that I will.

But for now I'll breed my pastel, see if I can get my hands on a spider or two eventually...and go from there. I want some bumblebees!
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Pastels and Bumblebees two of my favorites. I hope to proiduce a Bee next season myself. Good luck with your breeding.

Jeff

People always talk about the market crashing and I was actually just thinking the other day "it wouldnt matter to me if it did" it will make it easier for me to buy the morphs I would love to play with, the only down fall would be what I have invested already but hey it wouldn't be the first time I have wasted money :0)
But dont get me wrong this is my first season breeding and if it did take up so much time and it was paying my bills I would love to quit my job to take up breeding full time.
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You all talk Balls,I talk Royals ;0)
www.alpharoyals.co.uk

Thanks Alpha, I have no worries about the state of the market. I my opinion it is just a natural correction. And yes it has made it easier to get in on some morphs that just a year ago I didn't think where possible. And as far as whats been invested, it should be for the long haul. Over the lifetime of a productive animal i am sure they would pay for themselves. Good luck with your first season.

Jeff

My first clutch hatched a few days ago, I got 4 out of 5. One egg went bad and it had a small nearly fully developed dead snake in it :0( they are just all normals as I wanted to practice before my morphs were big enough.
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You all talk Balls,I talk Royals ;0)
www.alpharoyals.co.uk

Congrats on the babies and good thinking.

Jeff

Jeff,

Very good post, I was hoping to see some mid level breeders post their opinions, maybe they will.

Rich Baker
Chesapeake Bay Ball Pythons

Thanks Rich. I was hoping the same thing. The negetive nannies always post about how it can't be done. My favorite is the"this is a pyramid scheme" response. Some positive feedback from some successful breeders would be great.

Jeff

"Look at it this way; lets say you don't want to spend every waking moment cleaning, feeding and watering snakes, so you decide to produce 40 clutches of 6 average eggs per clutch; that's 240 eggs of mojaves or spiders (~$600 morphs) half of your eggs (120) will be worth $600 each ($72000)and the other half will be worth roughly $40 on average per hatchling (assuming you keep nothing) ($4800). That's close to $80000 minus expenses for paper towels, rats, heating, racks, and start-up, you'll clear $65000 to $70000/annum. Is that enough for you to stay home? You'll certainly have enough time to still work with that limited number of snakes..."

That was posted by someone earlier in this thread.

I've also gone over the math about a thousand times. I guess the biggest question in MY mind has always been, "can I actually sell 240 snakes a year at an average of $320?" That comes out to four or five snakes a week. I just don't know if that's a reasonable expectation.
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0.9.0 Ball Pythons
0.1.1 Leopard Geckos
0.0.1 Egyptian Tortoise
0.0.1 Bearded Dragons

Thanks Eminart, That is a good question. And no one has really chimed in to give an ideal of what type of business they do. I would assume that you would have to work a few good shows a year. And also if you sold one or two $1000.00 snakes a week that would work as well. But still its alot of snakes a year.

Jeff

Yeah, and I'm not saying it can't be done. I just don't know. I know that some people are doing it. I just wonder how hard it is to become one of those people. I really want to do something similar to this myself. I keep waffling between "professional breeder", having an actual pet store, or some combination of the two. Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that I'll never be anything that I don't try to be, so I'm going to give it a shot. But first, I'm taking a few business classes. So, good luck to you, and maybe I'll see you around sometime.
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0.9.0 Ball Pythons
0.1.1 Leopard Geckos
0.0.1 Egyptian Tortoise
0.0.1 Bearded Dragons

Good luck to you as well. We made the decision a year ago to take this to the next level. Next year will be our first year of production.(fingers crossed) Nothing ventured-nothing gained. I did the pet store deal about ten years ago. It was awesome, but the overhead was a killer. The real nail in coffin though was a Pet Super Market to the left and a Super Walmart to the right. Sales fell off and I could not afford to move locations so I closed up shop. Ironically I ended up as a manager working at that Walmart for seven years. Go figure.

Jeff

Since my post was brought up, I'll respond to that;
Lets put it this way; I'm up in Canada, and have been breeding for 5 years now. This started out as a hobby and has remained as such for me. It's great that I can make some cash from this as well. I was told by the wife that this hobby had to remain in the basement (rats and snakes) in a bedroom down there. The room is 12X16. I mostly breed lessers, pastels, mojaves, albinos and crosses of those. I have never done a single show, I sell my product from word of mouth from previous customers, and have never not sold and animal that I was looking to sell. I do have a modest website. I am looking to produce just over 20 clutches this season. I spend roughly 10-15 hours in my room a week tending to the rats and snakes both. I work 50 hours a week at my "day job". I'm a hardware analyst. I am not overwhelmed with the time that I need to put in to my "room" as I really enjoy it. Enjoying what you do is very important, or it will just become another job. I hope to make right around mid-five figures this season from what I produce as well as holding back quite a few females. Certainly worth it if you consider the limited hours I put into the maintenance. I would imagine that close to $3000 of that profit will be eaten up by rat bedding, lab diet, paper towels (Costco rules for Bounty prices) and the electricity to run my racks. I am not taking into consideration the amount of cash needed for start-up, which I figure I made back double the first season I sold any animals. I consider myself a tier three breeder, certainly not a NERD or a R Davis, TSK, more along the lines of a hobbyist who can make some pocket change and buy some new animals with the profit. Hope this helped.
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www.strictlyballs.ca

Thanks Again mykee. Thats the type of info I was looking for. I checked out your site. Looks like you produced some very nice animals last year. Quality over Quantity. Good luck this year.

Jeff

Hey Jeff and Mykee,

That's the kind of story I was hoping to here. Check out our website, let us know what you think.

Thanks, Rich
Chesapeake Bay Ball Pythons
Link

Lookin' good Rich. You are off to real good start. Love the Clown? Only one comment though. Some of the baby pics are huge. Maybe reduce their size. I hate scrolling to veiw an entire image. Good luck with the rest of your hatching and I will see you at Daytona.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, see you in Daytona.

Rich

Love the site and you've got a great collection. Keep up the good work. Michael.
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www.strictlyballs.ca

Thanks Mykee,

My wife did the website, our collection keeps growing, a hobby out of control, but we love it.

Thanks, Rich
Chesapeake Bay Ball Pythons