Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm potentially going to be getting into Woma's and would like to start thinking about caging requirements. I'll likely just build two big 4'x2' footprint cages or something, maybe 18" high.
I'd probably be using 3/4 plywood to build cabinet type cages, or maybe something a bit thinner, but not too thin. If they make something around 5/8ths I'd go with that.
Anyway, my question is this.......

Whats the basic puzzle structure for building a cabinet type?

Is it better to have the sides go the full height or fit the sides between the top and bottom piece?

Ok, I tried to draw a graphic but it doesnt work well. So, I'll go with the math.
If I want the whole cage to have an exterior measurement of 4' across, do I cut the top and bottom to 4 feet, or do I cut them to 3 feet 10.5 inches to allow for 3/4" sides giving me 4" overall?

Then, for sticking it all together, what methods are best to use? Screws (predrilled/countersunk) and glue? I have a biscuit joiner thats been sitting on the shelf unused for over 4 years now. I'd kind of like to break it in.
I also have access to a trim nailer able to shoot 2" trim nails. Should I use some/all/none of these ideas?

I can manage the door and all that jazz, I'd just like the gist of the cabinet portion from folks who have stuck a few together themselves....

Thanx!
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Tom

"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

First it greatly changes on the particualr material your building with.

I myself have built many a cage with melamine, one its easy and two its usually true and straight although it can warp if unsupported.

My basic cage is 4' in length by 2' in depth. Actually the depth isn't 2' exact as my cages were built to use newsprint as bedding the inside front to back measurment is designed aroung the newsprint. In my case 23 3/4". The length is exact 4' meaning the interior length is 46 1/2". Lastly my cages were built to be 80" overall stack. With 6" of airspace on the bottom cage and 1" of floor clearance. That makes each units floor to ceiling inside height as 16 1/4". Those a really important I just through that in as a means to demonstrate there are additional factors to consider. My reptile room ceiling is 83", so I needed the 2" for stacking and to antisipate minor fluctuations in the actual floor to ceiling height (house was built in 1954).

To the point my cages are built useing Dado's, glue and brads. The sides go the full height and the floor and ceiling are dado 1/4" into them meaning my floor and ceiling boards were 47" x 24 1/8". I also use 1/8" tileboard for my back and its dado as well with a 1/4 recess on the back thats why the floor and ceiling are 3/8" wider than the inside measurment. For my front I used natural stained wood in a make shift face frame. nailed directly to the front than stained after installation.

I don't use this method any longer as I have designed some more ingenious designs with the help of Chris Harper, and about 2 yrs of planning. But for the time they were easy and fast to build and are still in use after about 3 yrs or so. I use Elmer's probond glue nad it holds incredably well. I actuall made a mistake when asembling two of the first cages, lets just say after I salvages what was left they couldn't be used for cages.

There are some benefits to the dado designed cage. Its easy to assemble without clamps. It can hold alot more weight than the standard butt joint. And when useing glue and melamine the open edge allows a great bonding surface than a butt joint would. I also silicone all interior edges.

Finally I use sliding by pass doors and they can be installed very easy without a though as to where to attach hardware as I glue the tracks in place with locktite power bond an easier to use version of liquid nails.

Hope that helps.

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Jeremy

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" July 16, 1945 Robert Oppenheimer

0.1 Sunglow "Khal" RTB **Coming Soon**
0.1 Snow "Khal" RTB **Coming Soon**
1.1 Double Het "Sharp" Snow RTB's
1.1 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.0.14 Hypomelenistic RTB's
0.2 Pastel Hypo RTB's
1.0 Double Het Stripe Albino RTB's
0.1 Suriname RTB
0.0.15 Normal Suriname Hybrid's
0.1 Anerthrystic RTB
3.6.17 Red Bearded Dragons
1.1 Rhinoceros Iguana's
1.0 Green Iguana
1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Cream Golden Retrieviers
1.0 Pomeriaian
0.3 Catus Terribilis
0.1 Spouse
1.0 Child

Whats the basic puzzle structure for building a cabinet type?

Is it better to have the sides go the full height or fit the sides between the top and bottom piece?

Assuming simple edge joints and no dados or rabbets, then I recommend the sides to fit in between the top and bottom panel. I also recommend the back fit inside the rectangle formed by the the top, bottom and sides. In other words, if the cage will be 48" long and 18" high, then the top and bottom should be 48" long and the sides should be 18" minus 2x the material thickness in height. The back panel should be the same height as the sides and 2x material thickness under 48" in length.

Do note that hardly any 3/4" plywood is actually 3/4".

Now, with that said, I'll also go as far as to suggest it probably does not matter a whole lot. Some frameless kitchen cabinets are designed less sturdy than this and are assembled without glue and hold up heavy stone or concrete counters. Granted they are screwed to wall studs and sometimes to the floor, but nonetheless I think many would be surprised at just how flimsy some kitchen cabinets are.

For another example, I built my bearded dragon cage from scrap and broke all of the rules I listed above and did not even use a back that went all of the way up to the top panel (due to the false ceiling). I had to due to the lights I wanted to fit in the cage so the top and bottom fit between the sides. The dragon is long gone at this point and the cage sits empty in my basement and acts as a storage area for our bottled water. I have had hundreds of pounds of water sitting on the cage for over a year now and the joints are still fine. In fact I can have three cases in the dead center of the cage and the sliding doors still work fine. I try to avoid that but my wife occasionally really piles stuff right in the middle. I'm shocked it's held together.

Then, for sticking it all together, what methods are best to use? Screws (predrilled/countersunk) and glue? I have a biscuit joiner thats been sitting on the shelf unused for over 4 years now. I'd kind of like to break it in.

I also have access to a trim nailer able to shoot 2" trim nails. Should I use some/all/none of these ideas?

Bisquits are nice for alignment and do add some strength to a carcass made with edge joints only.

If you really want to avoid screws on the outside or don't like the look of plugged screw holes then I think you can get away with biscuits and brads. Or you could use a kreg pocket hole jig but that seems to be overkill since you already have a nailer and biscuit joiner.

Definitely use the biscuits and brads for the initial glue up. If you're not comfortable with the end result you can always add screws.

BTW, a lot of these decisions may be determined by what thickness of material you choose. If you went down to 1/2" then I'd strongly recommend rabbets and dados.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

0.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Malaysian locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

I built a cage exactly how you are decribing for my dumerils boas. I used a biscuit joiner. The results are pretty but boy is it a pain! If I did it again I would use some screws and only biscuit the front stuff. As far as the sides and top I usually make the sides go straight down to the floor and have the top piece rest on top of them. That makes the top more secure if you put anything on top of the cage, although it makes your cutlist slightly more complicated.

This guy is 3/4 ply. Each cage is 5 foot by 20 inches by 16 high. Heated with flexwat and lit with a flourescent tube in each. The glass doors swing out from the center. There is a bedding gaurd made of plexiglass so it is less intrusive.

excuse the mess

In my younger days I use to love to build stuff. I think it was my calling I missed out on.

With Chris and Bighurt and others this board is graced with ppl that 1 know their stuff. 2 willing to help, and 3 can explain it well.

It took me to my 30's to realize not all people can build. I thought everyone could figure how to cut stringers for steps, picture the order of assembly in your head for something etc etc.

I just thought I'd point out this board has some great people always there to lend a hand.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.herpzilla.com

I agree. This place is a great resource to pick the brains of the folks who have been there and done that. I know I can expect high degree of thorough answering. I had no worries that after my question was addressed I'd have a really good idea of what direction I was going in.
Thanx to all who contributed so far, and to all those who may have more to add, not only for my own question but to all the info that gets dumped here.

Stringers for steps.....hmmm, I always end up 1 toekick too short hehehe. Maybe that's a sign.

If/when I start this project, I'll try to photodocument as I go along. I'm bad enough when I work on my Jeep, hopefully it wont be the same with carpentry.
.
This pic is actually pretty old. It's bigger and meaner now....

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Tom

"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"