Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If you receive animals That are dead on arrival.Delta dash.Of cource Delta will not gurantee animls even though it was probably their fault.Have anyone ever heard the buyer pay for half the worth of the animals,That were DOA?
I may be wrong but I have not heard of this.I always thought the seller was responsible for live arrival.
Any info on this would be appreciated
Mike

As a buyer I would send the animals back and expect a 100% refund.
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Dave
Phila, PA

www.DNReptiles.com
Myspace/DNReptiles
Photobucket Album

The buyer is buying a snake that should be in good health, eating, etc., no matter if it is in person, or shipped. If the snake arrives DOA, unless the buyer told them to ship a certain way, or certain day, and the seller did not want to for whatever reason, it is the sellers responibility to replace the snake, refund the money and then go after the shipping company.

you all expect the seller to lose the cash....even if it wasn't his fault........and shippers do not care....most shippers will say it is illegal to ship live snakes......except the airlines maybe.......and most people say they never pay up even if they admit fault.......

.......I hand people their snakes.......and they still can screw it up setting in the parking lot in the car like idiots with the snake in a deli-cup in the sun through the glass.......then come back in and ask why something is wrong with their snake they just got..(that is 100 degrees in the cup and like hard bouncy rubber)........

.........people............uuugh.......

LOL

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Local Corn is in season and picking is non-stop........LOL
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NO, as a buyer and as a seller, all my transactions are live arrival guaranteed. If a seller will not give me a live arrival guarantee than I'll move on and find a seller that will. As a seller, I make it the responsibility of the buyer to provide accurate temps, pickup or receive the package on time, and confirm arrival to me. If they fail to do that, not my fault.If they do their part, than any mishaps are my responsibility. Carrier mistakes are on me. Not my fault but not the fault of the buyer. As long as you don't cut corners on packaging even carrier mistakes usually have a good ending.
Just my policy. Everybody needs to set their own and buyers need to ask.

I am a verified Delta shipper and each time I ship an animal via Delta Dash, I pay extra to insure it for the full value the buyer paid for the animal. Delta charges me as the shipper for that added insurance. When the buyer picks up the animal at the Delta counter, he opens the box right there in front of Delta personnel so everyone knows if the animal is okay. If it is NOT okay, the buyer files a claim with Delta who will refund the amount the shipment was insured for. This is why a shipper should always insure the shipment for the value. Delta takes extra care to ensure animals are temp-contolled. At least they know the exact contents of the shipment and do take care to protect them from temperature extremes.

Susan Sentman
SSNAKES Reptiles
www.ssnakes.com

I am also Delta verified and dash shipments are insured by Delta for $750, any more value than that has to go priority and the shipper pays for the insurance.Terry

I don't know what you mean by priority Terry. I have the option of shipping Dash or P-1( priority one) but it is always my choice. And I always choose Dash because Dash shipments do not get bumped for any reason. The added insurance.....say for a $2000 animal, is a minimal charge raising the cost from $76 to maybe $84. To me it is worth it.

Susan
SSNAKES Reptiles
www.ssnakes.com

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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

Some shipping info on Delta.

First thing, I am Delta varified, and have never had a fatality involving a snake that I shipped through Delta. A few points that I would like to clarify.

1-Insurance...Delta as far as I know, does NOT offer insurance, but have a vague thing called "Declared Value." This is NOT the same as buying insurance, but they will let you think it is. Say you are shipping out a Mojave and want to "insure" it for $500, what you are really doing, is telling Delta that you are shipping a snake worth $500, and if anything happens to the snake, YOU have to prove to Delta that it was worth what you put as the declared value. I have heard that this is not too easy, and dread the day I have to contact them about a dead snake. The next time you ship, ask them about the difference!

2-Dash vs. Priority One...ok, this is what I was told, on numerous occasions, by different people, see if it makes sense to you, because it does not make sense to me. Delta Dash, say I ship from San Diego to Rhode Island. The shipment leaves San Diego and goes to Atlanta, the Delta hub. Once in Atlanta, the box is unloaded and reloaded on a plane going to Rhode Island. Now, Dash is supposed to have a maximum of 1 hr on the ground, and is guaranteed to board the next available flight to RI. A Dash shipment can only be "insured/Declared value" for a maximum of $750. With Priority one, there are two differences! First, you can insure/declare a value up to $25K, which is nice when shipping Clowns, Stripes, etc. Remember, Dash has a $750 maximum. Secondly, with Priority One, it actually is not their first priority, as they can have a 4 hr. layover instead of the 1 hr. layover allowed by Dash. Priority One also will not necessarily board the next plane to Rhode Island...but instead, will board the next convinient plane, or however they want to do it in the 4 hr window.

I wish they would allow us to ship Dash, gets there the quickest, BUT let us Declare a realistic Value for a snake over $750. I love Delta, but the Priority One and Dash packages do not make sense to me!

Dave

I stand corrected on my earlier post about insurance. What you said is correct. You declare a 'value' and you prove they are at fault.
I will still say I have heard them paying for the 'value' of the snake as in a case I know of they were clearly at fault.

I too have never had a DOA with Delta personally. The DOA I referred to was for shipping FedEx which I tried like he!! not to do....I took a chance, I lost, I replaced. I felt bad for the snakes, but took care of the customer.
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

THis is what it states right on Delta's page.

Note: We will refund 50% of the shipment price if we do not transport the DASH shipment on the designated flight with the exception of delays caused by mechanical or weather conditions.

Here is the link

http://www.delta.com/business_programs_services/delta_cargo/cargo_flight_availability/cargo_products_services/delta_dash/index.jsp

If it does not work, just google Delta Dash and click on the link, go to the bottom.
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

I too am Delta verified and I have paid for insurance as well. I cannot say I do it all the time, but I do it in the event I send something I cannot really afford to replace with cash.
I am also FedEx approved, but only use them to areas where temps are not a concern OR if someone refuses to pay for Delta.....which in itself to me is ignorant to do. People spend thousands on snakes, but then only want to pay $30 for shipping rather than $60 for a little piece of mind.
Just my thoughts......again.
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

I am also FedEx approved, but only use them to areas where temps are not a concern...

Why? I find FedEx to be much better than Delta and I know most of FedEx flights are temp controlled. I could not get Delta (for which I'm certified) to tell me anything about their temps. Personally, I love FedEx.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Delta ships dogs, in the same compartment as the Balls, from what I have heard. So, I feel more comfortable that the snakes are in a temp controlled area. The problem with FedEx is that they spend time in a truck, which could get hot right??

Dave

True. But your animals end up in trucks - albeit a shorter length of time - with Delta anyway. The last shipment I received from Delta was in mid-July. They lost the package and when I arrived to pick it up, it was sitting in the 90 degree warehouse.

My FedEx deliveries are by 10:30am. I feel confident, the animals are not in too much danger. Did this go off subject? Oh well.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I agree with where both of you are coming from, but here is reality as there is an exception to everything.
As far as time on the truck, the distance from the plane to the Dash building is a matter of a mile or so. The distance on the truck with FedEx can be hundreds of miles. Here in Phx where your FedEx package will land it could take HOURS to get to Flagstaff or even longer to souther Arizona. The safer way, all things being perfect with both trips, would be Delta Dash.
Just my thoughts.
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone we bought and sold from lived within an hours drive? Ahhhhh.....
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I go back to the last post at the bottom of the original thread.
Be good Jay.

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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

>>I go back to the last post at the bottom of the original thread.
>>Be good Jay.

Always! You too.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

That sellers Have the responsibility to have the animals arrive alive.It is a loss if you ship an animal and it arrives dead.If insurance was as cheap as some of you said I don't know why you wouldn't insure them. I know alot of breeders have guarantees on live arrival.I just wondered if anyone has heard of people that don't.Unless too cold or hot which breeders won't ship anyway.
Thanks for all the responces
Mike

I agree with you all that I would expect AND I would offer a live arrival guarantee. I have replaced snakes that died in shipping EVEN THOUGH they were left on the doorstep of the wrong house during the summer....no fault of mine. I did so because I felt it was the right thing to do.
The only thing about this I would be curious to know, and I appologize if I missed it, is what was (if any) the guarantee on this purchase?
We all think that it would be the right thing to do, to replace it, but if it was not spoke of, requested by the buyer, or says otherwise in the sellers terms, a replacement may not be in order.
Just my thoughts.

Brian Oakley

PS. I do know of times that Delta HAS replaced the cost of animals so it is unfair to say that they will not do it.

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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

At the airport.And a number of calls were placed.3 months later letter recieved stating they could find no fault by airlines.Unfortunatly insurance by shipper was refused.
Mike

Putting in a claim does not show that the airlines, Delta in this case is at fault. It also does not mean that the discussion took place with the seller that he guarantees live arrival.
Again, I would have replaced it, but not everyone ha the same business practices. If his terms of service states he does not guarantee live arrival or something like that does not suggest he has bad business practices either. It would tell me he makes it clear what he guarantees and then I would make a decision whether or not I wish to buy form him.
It is all a bummer, but not sure what you can do from here.
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

I am a fed-ex certified shipper. Last month I shipped a pair of half dwarf double het albino granite burms that we produced to North Carolina from Colorado. The temperatures were ideal. Fed-ex "misplaced" the package which caused the shipment to be a day late. I shipped fed-ex due to the customer being over 3 hours from the nearest airport... one way. End result, the male did not make the journey, we have no clue what their conditions were temperature wise while they were missing. I promptly offered to replace the animal.

When you sign your contract with fed-ex, kiss your rights goodbye. You can't make a claim or get a refund on your shipping, even if it is their fault. If you file a claim, your contract will be terminated. My only recourse as a business is to claim the loss on my taxes.
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
sales@artinscales.com

If the value of the animals was declared Delta is potential open to filing a claim on the loss. That is why they offer the coverage. Nearly all sellers offer live arrival but the weather is also a factor. If it was too hot at some point in transit to be shipped it should not have been shipped.

Next time one of my animals has to come through that God forsaken airport and doesn't make it to me on time I am going to be very unhappy to say the least.

-John

Ths is not directed at anyone that has posted here, but I remember having a conversation on these forums many years ago about this same topic.
Everyone wants to point blame at various entities or people. Snakes die in shipping for many reasons, much the same reasons that these same snakes could have died if they were never shipped at all.
Some sellers are so quick to make a buck they take zero consideration for the animal or even you the buyer at times. People have these rediculous sales where they sell animals right out of the egg, no prior feeding, may not even have had water yet. THis is a problem especially if you are shipping and they do not have a good intake of water prior.
People want to ship animals in a bag, tied in a knot and thrown in a box....yes I have received animals like this, but fortunately it survived. They do not pack the snake in efforts to obsorb shock if knocked around and whatnot. In other words, no paper or styrophome peanuts for cushion.
People try to take the cheepest way out of things. This goes back to people who spend hard earned money (good amounts at that) on a snake, but insist the seller send it via Airborne or something. Why? Why would osmeone not spend an extra $30, compared to door to door service companies, and just ship the airlines? People say they are too far from the closest airport. Well, maybe one should consider another hobby or take the time to drive in order for it to make it safe and sound. I had a buyer drive from a small town in Arkansas once, all the way to Memphis just to insure his Salmon boa made it safely. It took him nearly a days work worth of time.....at least it made it safe!!! This is not to suggest that things cannot happen even with the airlines though. They also buy the cheepest animals at times. Don't you ever think there is a reason everyone is selling a certain animal for say $1000 and then you find one for say $500? Probably something is not on the up and up with the snake. Not to suggest this IS the case, but like the old saying goes....if it sounds to good....blah blah blah. I buy from the most reputable breeders most of the time. Kara and Kevin at NERD are awesome! Might pay a bit more than say Joe Blow, but I know what I am getting. I have bought from Rich Ihle when I could have purchased a Hypo/Salmon for half the price. I could go on and on.
I compare this to my "day" job. I am a business banker for a major bank here in the U.S. I cannot tell you how many times people come in all fired up, yelling and screaming about how the bank screwed them and the bank needs to give money back (checkbook out of balance). All I do is provide the info right off their very own account and show it to them and then they walk away, tail between thier legs.....
People are so quick to point fingers and not look at the whole picture and what other things could have caused things to happen.
I am suggesting that sellers be more careful when packing, shipping and even deciding how soon after birth they sell their stock. It is not just about the money. We are dealing with live animals here and the most precious thing, at least to me, my word as a seller. THis in itself is something people look past the most when considering how others will view themselves in the event something goes wrong.
Now the buyer. The buyer also has an obligation to ask the right questions about terms and conditions regarding any sale. The seller should also RESEARCH the animal they are buying and make sure that the conditions (whether, time in a box, etc) will be ok for the animal they are buying. If you want to make the commitment to buy something then one should also take the extra steps to insure the animal makes it safe themselves.....use the airlines. Don't rely on door to door service. With that said, I too am FedEx verified and I too use them to ship here and there as well. I cannot control people and the way they want to receive the snake/s.
Folks, this is more than just buying and trading baseball cards. These are lives that we are dealing with and this should be taken into consideration....after all, we all got into snakes because we love animals to begin with. If you got into snakes so you can walk around the mall (boy I see this also) or the store just to 'scare' people and look "cool", you need to rethink why you are in this trade to begin with.
Lastly, before anyone wants to email me asking who the hell I am and what I know, let me tell you this. I have kept, bred, sold, traded, and given away reptiles for nearly 17 years. I have been absent from this site for the last two years as I was dealing with some perosnal challenges that came first. In order to insure the animals I had were taken care of and I would not deny them the care they need, I completely got out of snakes. With that said, I am coming back and hopefully you will see more of me in the future. I have shipped 100's of snakes, worth tens of thousands of dollars and only had one DOA. THat was the one I mentioned yesterday that was shipped and left on the wrong doorstep in the heat of the summer. Wasn't my fault and it certainly wasn't the buyers, so I replaced them. My word was worth many times more than the money I would have made on the sale.
I think I am fininshed now. I hope my opinions might help others in the future and I wish you ALL the best in your ventures to come.
Take care!
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@qwest.net

As long as the snake arrives and is signed for at the time the delievery is set up for (say 10:30am); I would guarantee live arrival. If the package is lost for a day or so I am not responsible for shipping errors. These terms should be understood and agreed upon before shipping is done. As a small business only producing a certain amount of animals each year it would not always be possible to replace an animal if something happened. I would certainly try and make every attempt to make things better for my customer. Maybe sending them a replacement animal when availability of that particulare animal allows.
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Dino W.