Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well I'm going to assume "no" first off, but if it'll be ok I think it would look pretty neat. Right now he's in a soil setup which I don't want him in forever. I know aspen, newspaper, etc are the best and easiest, but I like the more naturalistic displays for my animals. I'll post up a pic for size referance of the stones. It'll be for my juvenile cal king (~18". I also NEVER feed him in his cage. I have a seperate one with no substrate for that. Info either way is apprecaited. Thanks!

And here's a pic of the snake!

It may look nice, but in my opinion it is not a great choice for any reptile..

Does someone care to list the reasons?

~ Mike

While I didn't know for sure, I would list the reasons as impactation (which would be minimized because of outside feeding, but I could imagine is still a possibility), moisture retention since it doesn't absorb moisture it would sit on the bottom of the tank (I have a drain because used to house an emerald in that enclosure). Possibly irritation to the snakes skin? I'm not sure on all of these, which is the reason I asked this. Any other ideas of something better? I mean cal kings do live on dirt/sand in the wild so there has to be something besides just paper/aspen/astro turf. But on the other hand I don't want to hurt the little guy either.

The health of your snake should be primary to the looks of your cage. Besides in the wild, snakes have the option to move to different types of ground cover.

Yes, the health is first, but that shouldn't mean we don't have any options for something nice. So is there ANYTHING else that's safe to use? I've even heard that soil isn't good. What do zoo's use in their enclosures? I'm sure it has to be safe and still look good.

There's a bunch of substates out there, most aren't that great for snake ( Calci sand etc). Why not go with aspen (easy to clean) and decorate the cage with a nice hide box, fake plants a climbing brach, etc. The look of the cage means nothing to the snake

1 Nose will be torn up digging
2 skin will abrade and get tough/rough
3 Completely unsanitary-(wipe your butt with it and try!)
4 All the above will stress the snake out(get sick easy)
5 Perfect size to pose ingestion/compaction problems
6 Much harder to moderate thermals... heat conductivity
7 Easily moved around--will work against what you are attempting to create in the first place as the snake will constantly cruise the cage looking for someplace more comfortable...digging up everything you try to plant.
8 And the reason you want to use that substrate is so you can plant it(water it)....and all those nooks and crannys will be perfect breeding grounds for all kinds of bacteria/etc....
9 You will be looked down upon on the forum as someone who knew what to do and chose not to....and will then get no help when futher problems occur.
10 Reeling from this slight you will become even more depressed.....OK, the last one is kind of a joke

I actually wasn't going to plant it. But you can pretty much scrap that list because (maybe it wasn't obvious) I am looking for other options (besides the substrate I posted). So instead of listing the reasons that substrate isn't good (since I was just throwing it out there, and listed basically the same ones you did already in another post ), how about some acceptable naturalistic ones that are SAFE. I emailed the philly zoo about what they use so hopefully I get something back from them. Better hurry though, I might get depressed or something

Try ground walnut shell. You can find it in any pet store and its about as close to the natural look you'll find. Its easy to clean and there's no problem if the snake swallows a little while eating. I've kept Cal kings for years on it without any problems.

When I started keeping snakes, I used a lot of different cage carpets. They have all different colors, and they can be washed in a washing machine. Some of the colors look quite natural, especially the brown. Use that with a couple of natural looking hides, a nice rock, and a fake plant. That looks real nice, and it's sanitary. It works if you only keep a few snakes, but it is quite time consuming now, so I have switched to aspen for all of mine. Google- cage carpets, and take a look at them. Get more than one to replace the one that is getting cleaned. Good Luck. Derek

Zoo's have staff that take care of the cleaning 24/7 as well. I've been a big fan of aspen shavings for pretty much all of my animals. Absorption is good, nice smell, easy to clean, can be burrowed under and through, inexpensive, and can be spot cleaned easily. You could even place a layer of newspaper on the bottom of the cage, then throw in the shavings. When cleaning time rolls around, just roll up the whole mess and discard, then replace with more newspaper and shavings.
-----
1.0 Lampropeltis t. gaigae
1.1 Lampropeltis g. floridana
1.1 Pituophis c. sayi (Hypo Stillwater)
0.1 Pituophis c. sayi (South Texas)
1.0 Lichanura t. myriolepis

Yeah zoo's do have people cleaning 24/7, but I only have 2 herps right now as I got rid of my WHOLE collection. Including pigmy rattlesnake, 2 ball pythons, 2 carpet pythons, snapping turtle, dart frogs, and some other little things. The only thing I kept was my emerald tree boa (long term captive w/c) who was as tame as a ball python. Sadly her age was unknown (caught as an adult), and she recently died from old age. She was taken to the vet when she started to act different, you guys know what I'm talking about how when you have a herp so long you can just tell subtle changes. And there was nothing I could do So I got a veiled chameleon and now a kingsnake. So cleaning is no problem.

About the substrate now. It's not like I don't like the look of aspen, but it lets the snake come in contact with the bottom glass of the cage (same with newspaper). I have a heat pad under it (24w zoo med) and it gets downright hot! Through the dirt substrate I have now it's right at 85*. But at the glass it's just about 100*. The snake does in fact burrow in the dirt, but it's very deep and he only goes under the top layer. I have a thermostat I can hook up to the heat pad. Or do you think I should make a rheostat out of a dimmer switch. I've done the ladder before, but I forget what wire to put it in (smooth or ribbed). Any input on what to do with the heat problem? Or is 100* not that bad since he could move off that spot? Thanks guys!

Coconut fiber makes a good substrate if you want a naturalistic look. You buy it in compressed bricks, expand it in hot water - and then let it dry.
-----
6.8 L. getula californiae - 11 eggs (Cal. King)
1.2 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - 14 eggs (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

Put the lime in the coconut, ah never mind..LOL!

The Lime goes in the Corona.
And don't just squeeze it in - push the whole slice in the bottle.
-----
6.8 L. getula californiae - 11 eggs (Cal. King)
1.2 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 L. getula floridana (Brooksi)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata - 14 eggs (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

I personally like the cage carpet. It's sanitary, attractive, and green (reuseable). I just change it out about once a week or so (more or less depending on the snake having a movement). Replace it with the spare and throw the dirty one in the washing machine.
I also have a naturalist set up and the carpet fits perfectly with that.
Also you can fed the snake in the enclosure without worrying about impacts or anything.