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I have a suri female that I am doubting is gravid, since she's at 138 days POS. Given the photos below, does she look gravid to you? Or can I resume normal feeding?

Need to know if I can go out of town without worrying...

Continuing from the post below...

/snip/
History - she was with her mate from December on and off until early February. Courting was witnessed, but not copulation. She did swell, and shed somewhere between February 27 and March 2nd. She had shed on a regular schedule (4 to 6 weeks) before the POS. The boas were not cooled.

She did not lose her appetite, and I fed small meals (one small rat) once every two weeks from March until mid-May, when I stopped feeding. I fed a small meal last week, since I've been getting more doubtful.

She shed again on July 4th (a huge gap for her).

Photos -

October (when I obtained her and her mate):

May:

June 22nd:

June 27th:

I'll take another photo today.
/snip/
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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com | CageMakers
1.0 BP, 1.0 Hog Is., 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 0.1 GTP

There's a simple way to tell in your boa has "something" in her. If she's larger than 6 feet you'll need someone to help you. What you need to do it take her out of her cage. Then allow the last 1/2 to 1/3 of her body hang. If she's a very heavy female you'll need to have a second person "support" the "hanging part of her last 1/2 to 1/3" of her body during the hanging process.

Now "if" she has something in her.... Could be babies, slugs, a mixture of both....

You'll see a lumpiness to the hanging part of her body. This lumpiness should take up "all" of the last 1/3 of her body. The larger the lumpy area is the more likely you have babies in her. If it takes up not quite 1/3 of her lower body it's more likely you have a mixture of babies and slugs. If it take up a lot less than 1/3 of her body you most likely have slugs. If there's not lumpiness..... She's not gravid.

BTW this is the method my vet used to determine if my boa was gravid a few years ago. He wasn't able to do a Sonagram, so he did the hanging method. I was amazed at how "obvious" the lumpiness in her lower half was.

Anyway give it a try. Even if you don't get an "exact" answer... At least, you'll have a better idea if she's gravid or not. BTW this only works if they're pretty far along.

Of course, you could also use the temperature method. A gravid boa will have a body temp of 85 to 88 degrees.

You should only need to hang her lower half for about 3 to 5 seconds to tell if she's gravid. For my boa it too about 1 second. It was VERY OBVIOUS!

stepping stool? She's 8.5 feet, and both my husband and I are fairly short. We've got one in the room... but from what you've said, letting her last 3 feet hang should be enough, right?
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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com | CageMakers
1.0 BP, 1.0 Hog Is., 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 0.1 GTP

Yep, Just let the last 3 feet of her body hang, but only for a maximum of 5 seconds.

It's actually easier that you might think. Even a strong boa can be held for 5 seconds. Also unless she's a "mean" boa, you shouldn't restrain her by holding her head. Boas tend to "tense up" when you hold them near the head. Just let her tail hang and gravity will let you know if she's got something in her.

In my excitement I almost missed the temperature tidbit.

I have a couple of temp guns - just her surface body temperature? She's been laying right under her heat emitter (hotspot is 90 a couple of inches off the ground on that side).

How accurate is the temperature method?
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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com | CageMakers
1.0 BP, 1.0 Hog Is., 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 0.1 GTP

Your cage temps are pretty high. I don't know how accurate using the temperature method would be. Still give it a try. You never know what you'll come up with.

Yep, it's 78 at the coldest area away from the emitter and 90 at the very warmest, and is a large cage. She thermoregulates a lot but has been staying on the warm side.
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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com | CageMakers
1.0 BP, 1.0 Hog Is., 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 0.1 GTP

I should add that the cage is heated with an OVERHEAD ceramic heat emitter, which is why the incage thermometer reads 90 off the floor under the emitter - it's cooler closer to the floor and the cage is 2 feet tall. Gotta love big old wooden handmade cages.
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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com | CageMakers
1.0 BP, 1.0 Hog Is., 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 0.1 GTP

First... she's a big, beautiful girl!!!

Second.. if the cage has an area she can go that drops down into the low 80's and she's consistently sitting on the heat, and you temped her @ 88 I'd say there's a good chance she may in fact be gravid.

I'm no expert, but Mike @ Basically is close and mentioned to me about the temp thing before the start of this breeding season. As a result I paid really close attention this year and with it he was 100% on calling my litters, from across the country no less.

I'd say leave her be... and hope for the best Let her chill out and maybe you'll get blessed with some beauties from her!!!!!

All the best,

Guy

Well I can't say yes or no... but it is possible that the male was removed too early and she is not gravid.

Sometimes the swelling of the post-ov swell will look like the ovulation and cause the male to be removed too early. This happened to me which is why I mentioned it. She swelled, shed and I was going to remove the male since he wasn't showing interest (that I saw) but decided to leave him in on the advice I got. About a month later (I don't have my records handy) she swelled again and then shed again a few weeks after that (POS). Here's a couple of pictures of her a month before she gave birth (she had 18 babies).


Note the seperation of scales. She was fed, maybe 3 or 4 times during the entire gestation and not at all for the last month and half.

My only experiece has been with BCi. Have you noticed her laying on her side with the last 1/3 almost completely upside down? I've seen this in all 3 of my successful breedings.

Breeding is tricky, wish they would read the manual and do it like clockwork and show all the signs they are supposed to, but they don't. So it's hard to say "Yes, your boa is gravid" or "nope". From what you are describing and the length of time it has been, I think she is not but that is just my opinion.

I think the 'hang down method' is a good indicator as was mentioned in the other reply, I've just never used it myself. I've had a breeding where I thought it took and it didn't (first one) and I can say that once you've seen gravid boas and have been through it a few times, it's much easier to tell and see the signs.

If she is in fact gravid and has babies when you are gone, they will most likely be okay. I've left babies in with their mothers for over 24 hours and they were fine. If someone you trust can come check on her and she gives birth, you have another temp cage set up to remove the mother into, even better.

I hope for the best for you, don't mean to be raining on your parade if it came across like that! If it didn't happen this year, try again!
Good luck!
-April
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow

April I have been reading all the threads of your two post and checking out the pics as well. I have bred boas myself a few times so I feel that I can comment on this as well. From your infomation the best I can say also is MAYBE. I have never heard of the "hanging method" either but sounds like its worth a try. It does sound logical. Best of luck, and let us know what you think after giving it a try. A pic of it would be cool too.
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Voices in the darkness... scream away my mental health. Can I.. ask a question.. to help save me from myself? Enemies fill up the pages, are they me?... Monday till Sunday in stages, set me free!!! " Diary of a Madman " Ozzy Osbournewww.bahreptiles.bravehost.com

She has been laying on occassion with the side of her belly facing up, sometimes with parts of her belly facing up, but never completely "belly up". Which is why I did have some hope still remaining. Every time I give up hope, she does a little something that I've read, whether it be looking like a flat tire, or looking lumpy, or laying belly partially up, that causes me to perk up again.

Also I did have the male in and out with her after the shed as well, since I had read about the ovaries going at different times.

I had never heard of the "hanging" method before and will DEFINITELY do that when I get home tonight. Yay, snake wrangling! She did look lumpy in one position the other day (again, gave me a glimmer of hope), but only a small amount towards her tail, so maybe she is a slugger. I never saw any scale separation. Even during ovulation, she swelled but not gigantically so.

Already got the spare cage ready (since before her due date), so that's no problem, just don't know if anyone would be brave enough to move her or the babies to it in my absence.

We shall see, I'll try "hanging her bottom" this evening when I get home. And, if I can manage, I'll try to get a photo of it as well, though there's not a whole lot of room in my snake room to get a wide shot.

THANKS for that tip!
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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com | CageMakers
1.0 BP, 1.0 Hog Is., 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 0.1 GTP

We tried the 'hang' test with her. We couldn't really get her to relax her back half, but when we lowered it, saw NOTHING but normal muscular snake. After I saw that, I palpated (palpitated?) her sides, felt nothing.

After that, I got a photo of her tail area, see below.

It's very warm where I live today, and the snake room was very warm when we were back there (it's on the west side of the house and heats up in the afternoon). It was 81 in the room, and the snake was between 85 and 87 degrees. I think it's just too warm for that test though. I took the temp of my yearling male hypo and got a temp of 88, so I doubt that means anything in today's heat.

Sigh. It's actually kind of a relief! She was a pleasure to hold, even though she tried twisting my thumb off a little. In the next few days, I'll take some photos of her outside.

Photos-
Tail area:

Exploring my husband:

Stretched out after being "felt up":

And a headshot, because she's pretty even though she won't be giving me a litter:

Thanks to all who gave advice. Maybe next season!

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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com | CageMakers
1.0 Ball Python, 1.0 Hog Island Boa (RIP DeeDee), 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 0.1 Green Tree Python

Hopefully you get alot of babies from her next year!!

I agree. Great looking female. Better luck next year.

So sorry that she doesn't look loke shes gravid. I know that is disapointing news to face. Well at least you know that you can start feeding as normal and give it another try the upcoming season. She is a great looking girl. Best of luck.
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Voices in the darkness... scream away my mental health. Can I.. ask a question.. to help save me from myself? Enemies fill up the pages, are they me?... Monday till Sunday in stages, set me free!!! " Diary of a Madman " Ozzy Osbournewww.bahreptiles.bravehost.com

I'd have to agree based on the pics. I'm sorry to hear it though! She is really beautiful. At least you know the male and female give it a good try! Good luck for next season!
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'There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."' -Rainshadow