Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm not a huge fan of hybrids, but I figure they're here to stay, so I wanna learn about them--call it curiousity, call it defensive measurers *L*. Can anyone reccomend a website, or any other source, that deals with some of the various snake hybrids? I'm mostly interested in venomous and colubrids here. I just don't see much info on them.

I've also got some questions about names I've applied to hybrids:
Jungle corns. Are these just between cal kings and corns, or any king and corns?

Jurassic milksnakes? I've seen them once or twice on list, but what lineage are they? I don't think they're simply a new species...are they?

And what all have corns been crossed with? I've seen them with hondurans, L. g. nigrita, L.g. californae., yellow rats, and glades rats. Have I missed much?

Thanks for any and all help

Paul
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Cornsnakes and kingsnakes and gophers oh my!

I will answer a few of your questions and then maybe someone else can pickup some of the others.

The Jurassics are hondo X floridana X calif king

The Jungles are a corn x Calif. Other kings crossed with corns are NOT Jungles.

Corndurans are hondo x Corn

Corns have been bred to yellow rats and Blackrats/greyrats since the beginning of time.Probably most all corns are not pure but natural intergrade hybrids. A common unatural hybrid would be a Intermontana (emoryi) crossed into corns. These are the CREAMSICLES corns.

See the hybrids are not all that bad when you think about it. The natural corn intergrade and emoryi crosses have all been well excepted and folks don't even flinch when talking about these "normal" corns. Its the new ones that people put down lke the Juraasics and corndurans. In time some of these self-hating "purists" will realize the hyprocracy and move on to prettier colors without all the slam bashing and realize that they have been raising their own mutts all along.

I would argue that if a person is all for keeping "natural" snakes, then a naturally occuring intergrade would be fine; however the more...varied...? ones like corndurans wouldn't be. Not really hypocritical, more a personal opinion.
I sort of figured that corns have interegrated with other Elaphe forever; I've seen a pic of a supposedly naturally occuring yellow ratXcorn (UGLY snake though, IHMO), and heard of some hard to ID serpents that seem to have characterisitcs of both species. *L* I know that various L. getula intergrade; isn't that what the "goini" phase and the outer banks are supposed to be? I wonder what all this does for the classical taxonomic definition of species? Espically the cornsXrats, as those are different species.

Thanks for the help with the names et al. Those things get so confusing.

Paul
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Cornsnakes and kingsnakes and gophers oh my!

You would have to define what is "natural"? Would a emoryi be a natural intergrade? No of course not. But many accept it as such. Also if a natural intergrade such as a Apalachicola or Outerbanks is okay and considered a valid sub species then if we cross a brooksi to a Eastern natural to create a similar aninaml in captivity natural? If not then does that not eliminate all morphs which are also created unaturally?
Don't get me wrong I know what you are saying about corndurana but there are other more unatural(unusual) intergrades that have happened in the wild that does not involve corns. Many purists consider this to be "freaks" of "nature" and call them "naturally occurring hybrids".