Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a 3-4 month old Leopard Tortoise. I do not know anything on the temps of incubation but is there any other way to sex babies?

No, there isn't. You will need to wait until it has grown enough to begin showing the usual signs of sexual dimorphism (long or short tail, concave or flat plastron, etc.). With Leopards, this will probably correlate with a length of 6 or more inches and an age of about 6-7 years (provided proper husbandry is provided for optimum growth and health).

There is a way but it is expensive... about $300.

You can find a vet who does endoscopic examinations. Interesting stuff. It can also tell you if the tortoise can reproduce at all and if it is internally healthy.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Can this technology be safely used on baby tortoises?

An inch to an inch and a half was the size I was told. It's amazing technology.

Keep in mind all surgery has a risk. You have to weigh the risk to benefit factors.

>>Can this technology be safely used on baby tortoises?
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

One of the top reptilian vets in the country who also happens to be extremely good with an endoscope told me that it was very easy to mistake males for females when doing endoscopy in very young tortoises because the testes and ovaries are not well differentiated (look alike) until the animals are somewhat older.

In as little as two years old the male and female gonads are very distinct. I suspect that even at one year they are just as distinct from the way I understand it.

I don't know what vet you are using but the one I am working with is Dr. Stephen J. Hernandez-Divers who happens to be giving a presentation on this very topic at this years TSA meeting in Atl.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Well, Ed, Dr. Charles Innis (of whom you also may have heard through the TSA) told me this a couple of years ago. Perhaps the technology has been improved since then? I am not sure. As an aside, Charlie was one of the first vets I know to use the endoscope on turtles/tortoises outside of a research institution and was actually trained in the technique at UGA by Steve Divers. You can believe what you like, as can any of the readers, but I personally would not trust this technique's accuracy if used on a tortoise less than three or four years of age.

The technology has advanced unbelievably in the last few years.

This is not an argument but clarification. If Dr. Innis was trained by Dr. Divers, don't you think Dr. Divers might have a little more experience. That's not the point either. I'll bet if you talked to Dr. Innes, He'll probably tell you the same thing I mention here. Technology is taking leaps and bounds at an unbelievable rate.

The bottom line is the technology is available and it has been refined a great deal but it is not cheap to the average keeper and there are risks.

I, personally, was very apprehensive at having the procedure done but once over I was amazed at the simplicity and accuracy.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Please explain how you were impressed by the accuracy. You won't know anything about the accuracy of the procedure on a 1-2" tortoise until you grow the animal to sexual maturity, will you?

I just heard about an STD study on Manoria at the Atlanta zoo. They used laparoscopic surgery to confirm the sexes of, I believe, 6 month old tortoises. They were under a year old.
This technique has come a very long way in the last few years but that's another story.

Why I was impressed is because of the clarity of the sex organs as it was explained to me. After seeing the details I could see how there would be no doubt.

This it the view of a 2 year old male gonads. The tortoise is 6 inches in length but I was told the gonads are distinguishable at hatching. The organ splits the screen from the upper left to the lower right.

This view is of the female. The mass (ovaries) goes from the upper right to lower left.

I had 21 tortoises sexed and this was totally consistant. Then when I saw the photos of the laparoscopic sexing of the baby Manoria I was more amazed.

I'm going to get a quote on a baby Leopard but I'll bet it is much cheaper than I thought because they can use a local anesthetic.

I hope that explains it enough.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

STD study??? Sexually transmitted disease? Do you mean TSD as in temp. sexual determination?

Yup, a little dyslexia there... sorry.
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Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care