Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am so existed after having to wait do to the heat and other logistical problems, he is finally on the way . It has been about 4 weeks since I ordered him . But Ralph is like me in the since that the snakes well being is the first concern and he will not do any thing that might put a reptile at risk but that’s just the grate kind of guy Ralph is . I can’t thank Ralph enough for the grate deal on such a grate snake. It is Albino and 100% Het for Jolliff Snow . Att. Is a pic that Ralph Davis sent me of him and the flash kind of washed his color out but you can still tell he is a very nice Albino ,it was taken about a year ago baste on the dates on the card under him. Thanks for looking David of DS Reptile Rescue

Spell check?

If that is all you have to say , DON’T David

grate and great are both actual words so the spell check won't show it as a mistake. It's a grammatical error that spellcheck won't pick up.

BTW, that is an awesome looking albino. Congrats on the pickup.

Thank's I Really appreciate it , I have been looking for a long time for one like him . Thanks David of DS Reptile Rescue

didn't think so

Were are you getting the Axanthic part from it is Het Snow. David

Snows are made from albinos and axanthics. So if you have a albino het for snow it is actually het for axanthic double het for snow. If it is a albino het for snow you could breed it to a axanthic or het axanthic and still produce axanthics.
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B Sleeper

1.0 Chocolate Lab
0.1 ?? Normal Ball python (yet different)
1.0 04 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Pied
1.0 06 Pastel
0.? 07 Pos Het Albino (Momma has not laid the eggs yet)

Thanks for the info , see you learn something new every day . I have never had any working experience with breeding Axanthics or snows and had no idea that was what was going on there . Thanks again . David of DS Reptile Rescue

No problem david im glad i can help out. Must be nice to know that you paid for something thinking you can get albinos or snows and find out you can also get axanthics. I wish something good like that could happen for me lol. Have a good one.
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B Sleeper

1.0 Chocolate Lab
0.1 ?? Normal Ball python (yet different)
1.0 04 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Pied
1.0 06 Pastel
0.? 07 Pos Het Albino (Momma has not laid the eggs yet)

Dave, congrats man, not a bad choice, of snake, or person to buy from! What are you planning on pairing him up with? Do you have a female Het Axanthic from the same line? Good luck man!

Dave

Thanks for the kind words Dave . I don’t know were the Axanthic part keeps coming from , it is 100% Het Jolliff Snow , I do have a 100% het For Albino coming the first of August that will make age and size to breed this fall . I am going to get a double het ,Albino & Snow from Ralph next year if I can’t save enough to get it this year . Buy I am always in the market for good Hets .LOL. Thanks again Dave . David of DS Reptile Rescue

Dave, in your original post, you say it is an Albino that is 100% Het for Joliff snow. What that means is, it is an Albino that is also Het for Joliff Axanthic. So, if you breed him to an Albino, you get all Albino babies. If you also breed him to an Axanthic, you could get Axanthic babies and they would all be het for Albino, meaning, Axanthic 100% Het for Albino, or 100% Het for snow.

That is something I have never herd , so is Axanthic when combined with Albino = to Snow ? David

If you breed a albino to a axanthic the babies will be het for snow. If you breed those babies you will (or should) get snow.
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B Sleeper

1.0 Chocolate Lab
0.1 ?? Normal Ball python (yet different)
1.0 04 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Pied
1.0 06 Pastel
0.? 07 Pos Het Albino (Momma has not laid the eggs yet)

Yes I got it know , I had not read your above post when I wrote this one . But thanks for being so thorough . David

Albino and Axanthic are both considered to be simple recessive inherited traits.

To oversimplify, each parent animal has DNA, half of which it will donate to it's offspring. The DNA contains millions and kazillions of gene pairs. Only one gene from each pair goes into any sperm or egg produced.

In this case, we are intersted only in TWO genes:

ALBINO & AXANTHIC

These genes do not occur at the same place as one another on the DNA strand, so it is possible for a single animal to inherit one Albino and one Axanthic from each of it's two parents. This animal that has two Albino copies and two Axanthic copies, is called a SNOW.

Your male is an Albino het Joliff Axanthic (also call het Joliff Snow). The Joliff part is important because it tells you what Axathics are compatible with your male's bloodline.

Your male has two copies of the Albino gene and one copy of the Joliff line Axanthic.

To produce a SNOW, you must breed him to a female that carries at least one ALBINO gene and at least one AXANTHIC gene. Here are the potential mates that could produce SNOWS, in order of favorability:

Snow- could produce snows and albinos het for axanthic

Axanthic het Albino- could produce snows, albinos het axanthic, axanthics het albino, or double hets.

Albino het Axanthic- could produce snows, all babies will be at least albino, and have a 66% chance of also carrying the axanthic gene

Het Albino Het Axanthic- could produce snows, albinos 66% het for axanthic, Axanthics 66% het for albino, or 66% double hets.

Good Luck!

>>That is something I have never herd , so is Axanthic when combined with Albino = to Snow ? David
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Kassandra Royer
Royer Reptiles

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signature edited by forum admin. 3/29/07

Wow I screwed up my own post. DOH! Anyhow, it's late.

Since your male is an Albino, all the offspring will naturally be 100% het for albino. So, where it says 66% het for albino, change that to 100% albino. Since your male is het for Axanthic however, he will still produce 66% poss het for Axanthic if bred to another het Axanthic.

>>Albino and Axanthic are both considered to be simple recessive inherited traits.
>>
>>To oversimplify, each parent animal has DNA, half of which it will donate to it's offspring. The DNA contains millions and kazillions of gene pairs. Only one gene from each pair goes into any sperm or egg produced.
>>
>>In this case, we are intersted only in TWO genes:
>>
>>ALBINO & AXANTHIC
>>
>>These genes do not occur at the same place as one another on the DNA strand, so it is possible for a single animal to inherit one Albino and one Axanthic from each of it's two parents. This animal that has two Albino copies and two Axanthic copies, is called a SNOW.
>>
>>Your male is an Albino het Joliff Axanthic (also call het Joliff Snow). The Joliff part is important because it tells you what Axathics are compatible with your male's bloodline.
>>
>>Your male has two copies of the Albino gene and one copy of the Joliff line Axanthic.
>>
>>To produce a SNOW, you must breed him to a female that carries at least one ALBINO gene and at least one AXANTHIC gene. Here are the potential mates that could produce SNOWS, in order of favorability:
>>
>>Snow- could produce snows and albinos het for axanthic
>>
>>Axanthic het Albino- could produce snows, albinos het axanthic, axanthics het albino, or double hets.
>>
>>Albino het Axanthic- could produce snows, all babies will be at least albino, and have a 66% chance of also carrying the axanthic gene
>>
>>Het Albino Het Axanthic- could produce snows, albinos 66% het for axanthic, Axanthics 66% het for albino, or 66% double hets.
>>
>>Good Luck!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>That is something I have never herd , so is Axanthic when combined with Albino = to Snow ? David
>>-----
>>Kassandra Royer
>>Royer Reptiles
>>
>>_____
>>
>>signature edited by forum admin. 3/29/07

I understand Genetics I just didn’t know that Axanthics were involved in making a Snow , or anything about Snows But I am learning fast LOL. Thanks David of DS Reptile Rescue

Picking up some of RDR's VPI het snows at Daytona and Ralph is a great guy to work with. Does that VPI mean Very Pretty Individual....thats right it means SNOW!!!! pure as it gets, not Cleveland snow (I am from there so I can say that), but Rocky mountain stuff or at least a 1 in 16 chance....just going for the axanthic part and some albinos to breed into mine but if it snows in Ft Lauderdale I will clean Ralphs rat racks for a day. Sorry to be a smart A%$ could not resist and I should be ashamed of myself....But it stands...if I get a snow, I will GLADLY clean his rodents....Should I say on the first breeding??? P.S. this is not downing the Joliff line one bit, I actually love the reduced pattern that they seem to throw off...I just find it hard to believe that someone would buy a het snow and not know what made them...but I was in that position once myself so this is not a mean jab, just a fun one. We all learn and dude....you are getting a GREAT snake.

I was actually just looking for a proven breeder Albino and Ralph suggested this male , I would have got him if he wasn’t het for any thing as I liked the shade of color he was and the pattern . The Jolliff Snow came as something I had seen pics of but not done any checking into the genetics of it yet as I had not had a interest in it until now . But also I have so much to look after at our Rescue it is hard to find time to do any real reading . If we weren’t non profit I might could afford to pay for some helpers to lighten the load . It has been crazy this year ,we have over 135 snakes ,of 13 different kinds 47 lizards of 16 different kinds 8 frogs, 4 different kinds ,2 alligators 14 tortoises ,of 6 different kinds , and that doesn’t include my personal collection . So I stay covered up 24-7 . Thanks David of DS Reptile Rescue

Like I said...live and learn....I do not think ANYONE knows everything about these animals so do not feel alone, I learn every day and I commend you on your rescue efforts, you are getting a killer snake.

Thank you on both compliments , I have always said I know a lot but also know I have to strive to learn more . And the only dumb question is the one you don’t ask . I love Reptiles ,they have been a part of my life for as long as I can remember , and it has been a life of learning and I will continue to learn for as long as I live . David of DS Reptile Rescue , Removal & Rehabilitation

but you did go a good route. The best way to get your snows would be to go to a double het female. Your odds of producing a snow are 1:16 with double het to double het, so if you make possible double hets, it could take multiple breedings (years to prove which ones are het axanthic and you are guaranteed they are all het for albino) If I understand right, when you breed a visual snow to a double het, you half those odds, so 1:8 will be snow. Since your animal is visual albino, and het for axanthic I would think your odds would be somewhere between those listed above. Remember that you can only cross to the Joliff axanthic line because the three lines of recognized axanthic are not compatable. You will learn alot about this very involved project and the length of it in the next few months.

I have been talking with Brian Sharp about a VPI axanthic to make double hets to work with myself. He said it took about 37 eggs to get two snows from double het to double het breedings. You can say he was a little shy of hitting the odds, but came very close.

I hope all this helps, but if not, ask more questions and somebody can answer them, or find the answer for you.

Sorry for the long post. I love this genetics stuff!!!!!

Best way to snows is not through double hets. You are correct in saying there is a 1/16 chance of hitting the snow with 2 double hets, but the odds are much better with an albino het axanthic.

If he paired his albino het axanthic up with a double het, the odds are 1/8.
If he paired it up with an axanthic het albino, the odds are 1/4 (not to mention all the offspring are all double hets).

You are also incorrect in saying that if you pair a snow up with a double het, your odds are 1/8...they are in fact 1/4.

I am getting ready to start the snow adventure myself. I am glad you cleared those odds up for me. I knew about the double het to double het, and the snow to double het, but not about the others.

Whats up? I have a female albino 100% het axanthic ready to breed this upcoming season! Email me if you want to get them together this year. Nice snake by the way!
Raj
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