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wild caught corn ID?

swedishjeep Jul 25, 2007 07:24 PM

just wanted to post some pics of a wildcaught corn from levy county in west central florida. caught it last august as a hatchling, was very pale and looked to have some type of amel or ultramel coloring. as its gotten older its gained alot of pigment but still has the red eyes. the body is more 'peach' color than anything else. ive been looking for any morphs that it resembles. anybody have any ideas? thank you for your time
mike

first a few pics of the night it was caught, then some updated ones.




Replies (7)

jyohe Jul 25, 2007 07:37 PM

????????

baby pic looks ultramel actually......

year old pics look like normal corn.........not like any of my ultramels.....

hhhhmmmmmmmmmmm....

......breed it to an amel........see what you get the let us know......

..........I'd say normals...........???
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DonSoderberg Jul 25, 2007 10:06 PM

It won't do us any good to guess, but the acid test for the ultra mutation requires breeding to some form of amel corn. Even if this has hybrid origins (ie: gray rat snake), red-eyed stock or hets thereof must be in the equation.

I don't recall what gender you said you had, but if it's a male, breed it to a hypo A alao to see if it's a recessive mutation. The odds of capturing an ultra that was hatched from wild corns has to be something in the order of one in a million. If no-one is finding any others like your's in that area, capturing an ultramel has to be something far greater in odds against. Perhaps one in 10 million ; since it could only be produced from an albino being out there staying alive in the wild. It's more likely that a het albino would be part of a wild equation to produce ultramels in the wild, BUT that's still highly unlikely.

Not trying to diminish the amazement of your discovery, but if this does turn out to be an ultramel, it's far more likely that it escaped from someone. Even if it's mother was an ultramel that escaped from someone, it would have to join up with an albino or ultra or het albnio out there in the woods to produce ultramels. Pretty slim odds, unless it was bred to an albino in captivity and then escapted gravid. If you catch others like that in the same area, it would be interesting data, but still points to escaped origins. If you wanted to test for this potentiality, you must also capture novel corns in the area to breed to albinos, to see if hets for albino actually haunt that area.

Good luck and keep us posted,

Don
www.cornsnake.NET
South Mountain Reptiles

xblackheart Jul 26, 2007 12:05 AM

The baby pic kinda reminds me of a crimson. Or a hypo of some sort. The older pics do not appear to be hypo, though.
Good luck on future breeding projects.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Life is Killing Me"

Gsc Jul 28, 2007 07:09 PM

First Off- GREAT FIND. I herp alot and still haven't found anything amazing like that... it must be a real rush. It'll be a fun project to work on.

I AGREE with Don on this one. I really think that it escaped or was LET GO by someone.... If no one is living in that area 9ie a remote place) then that means it would have been purposly let go there. I only say this because:

1) In Texas I have heard of a few people REALASING NON-FEEDING baby Grey Banded Kingsnakes back out into the wild. They FEEL that they are helping the enviroment by putting more GBK back to where they were taken from. Sometimes though they are from the same localities where they are let go...plus we can't forget the California Desert Tortise incident where a disease wiped out alot of the population from Captive re-introductions.

2) I have heard stories of Florida cornsnake breeders realeasing their non feeders into their yards/surrounding areas...laughing about finding an albino under yard debris the next year.... Hmmmm...

3) Okeetee Area. Oh, the coveted Jasper County area.... I KNOW of people who have said they let go their babies out there to "help the population"....usually well meaning "old school herpers" that don't understand how it can affect populations...

Conclusion: This is just my opinion. YOU WERE EXTREMELY LUCKY TO FIND THE SNAKE EITHER WAY (CB RELEASE OR WILD BORN ANIMAL)...IT'S STILL A KILLER SNAKE. People mentioned how it looked like a "normal" adult... like you said...the eyes are red...the lower part of the body shows the blck coloration as that "purple-ish black" look.... I think it looks ULTRA to me....

Good luck- just wanted to share my 2 cents....Plus I still need to get down to florida to do some herping....

Cheers,
GRAHAM C.

swedishjeep Jul 28, 2007 07:39 PM

hey everyone, thank you for your input and insight on this. im definitely going to try to breed him next year, to an amel and hypo as has been stated. it'll be interesting to see how things turn out.
thanks again
mike

jyohe Jul 29, 2007 06:49 PM

as an adult it looks nothing like an ultra or ultramel though....that's the wird part......

........breed it to amel.........let us know what hatches.....

..it is an odd looking snake now ........good luck......

..
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nodaksnakelover Jul 26, 2007 01:14 PM

huh, from the first few shots as a baby, I would have expected him to look like a hypo as an adult, not so obviously like a normal! But it's something that would be neat to see down the road what happens. It's worth working with! I'm very interested to see what those results are! Breed to a Hypo and an Amel for sure. And then if you get nothing but normals, breed the babies back to this snake and see what happens.

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