Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been recently starting to use pinky mice and large hornworms to fatten my girls up after laying eggs and to feed to the rest of my dragons as treats. My question is what is better to feed to fatten dragons up or what is better for dragons. Pinkies or hornworms?
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Darien Drollinger
www.djsdragonranch.com

I never feed pinkies. I think hornworms are a great feeder as part of a variety of insects.

I don't think you should try to "fatten up" females during breeding season. You want a variety of insect and vegetable matter fed in larger quantities during breeding season. I offer silkworms, hornworms, superworms, crickets, a few roaches and once in a while Phoenix Worms. This year I had an 8 month 250 gram dragon become gravid. She lays a clutch of eggs every 14 to 21 days. She has laid 4 clutches so far and is due for her 5th clutch in the next few days. She weighs 505 today. So it is very possible to get good weight on them without the addition of fatty foods.

i always heard a female had to wait until at least one years of age to start having clutchs? then i heard they need to weigh at least 420 to start having clutchs? yours is 8 months old and under 420. so my question is.... which is correct lol thanks

Well since one of mine was gravid at 8 months and 240 grams I guess the latter can't be correct. lol.

But seriously, it's recommended that a dragon not be bred until at least a year old and 350 grams. Females become mature and gravid on their own time schedule though. And they don't get gravid from being bred. Generally their body starts producing eggs just after they awake from brumation. If they don't brumate they generally won't get gravid.

The dragon I refer to was a high stress dragon for me and breaks all the rules.

They say dragons hatched after June 1st don't brumate the first year. Well she was born in July and Brumated from Mid November until I could finally convince her to stay awake on March 17th. Just having a 4 month old dragon brumate for 4 months is stressful and she would dig in so well I couldn't even see her. But she did OK with it, she entered brumation at about 255 and came out about 245. I woke her every 2 weeks or so and gave her water, I offered food but she would never eat. She would stay awake for almost 3 hours each time and then dig back in.

When she first awoke she ate well and got to about 275 when she abruptly stopped eating and became frantic. She acted as if she needed to lay eggs but of course I didn't believe it. So i took her to the vet. Well I spent $150 for an ultra sound and she had eggs. The bad thing is the vet didn't say how far along the eggs were. So I put her in a nest box anyway. Another week and a half went by and she still wouldn't eat and laid no eggs.

So I brought her out to see the Dachiu's. They recommended that I breed her. Since fertile eggs are easier to pass than infertile eggs. The next day she started eating again. I really think that she was frantically looking for a mate and thought none existed. But after spending a couple hours at the Dachiu's she most have realized there were plenty of available mates. lol. She started eating the next day and mated about a week later. She laid her first clutch of eggs on May 8th.

Then they say it takes 3 - 4 weeks between clutches. Her first clutch was 5/8, then 22 days on 5/30, then 15 days on 6/14, then 23 days on 7/7 and again any day now.

My other female laid 37 eggs on 5/14 and then 16 days later laid 33 on 5/30.

Bottom line is when they say "dragons don't" or "dragons won't" take it with a grain of salt.

dang, thaks for all the information.. i think you even answered my question about whos the dad ... lol....i think i got it now he he

most facts given are the 'averages'. But there are always those who are above or below the average.

To start breeding it is best to wait till a dragon is at last 350g and 15 months or more of age. It doesn't mean every dragon is going to wait that long to produce infertile eggs. Bearded dragons can mature as early as 8 months, and I think the earliest i have heard of was something like 6 months.

Same with time between clutches. The average is 3-4 weeks, but some, as BDLvr stats, have clutches as early s 2-3 weeks between each clutch..and I am sure there are dragons who take 5-6 weeks between clutches.

For myself personally, I try to stick with 'averages' and 'recommended' facts, but I am very much aware things don't always fall on averages or recommended facts.

A bearded dragon can have eggs at 8 months, and with proper husbandry and sufficient healthy food provided, can gain weight and carry clutches without any health risks. But if any of the requirements are lacking (ie temps aren't exact, not enough space, partially impacted...etc) a 8 month dragon having a clutch of infertile or even fertile eggs, can end up with complications (ie egg binding, calcium crash etc).

Important thing to know is not everything is guaranteed in animal care. Understanding the basics is important and I feel the average care info is best to give out, as it gives a sound range for new people to judge against (or even experienced people) to make sure things are right. For animals that just don't want to fall within that average range, well, they that keeps us on our toes, as it makes us wonder...why is the baby dragon not eating 30 pinhead crickets a day? How come my 10 month old female is trying to dig to China when she's never seen a male much less been bred? She's 4 weeks since her first clutch, how come she hasn't lain her second one?.... thus, we look for answers..even if there is nothing to worry about, better to worry too soon, then worry too late.
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PHLdyPayne

In some cases I agree with you but in others I do not.

Sometimes people take ranges as gospel. So if their dragon starts digging and stops eating 2 weeks after her last clutch they just may ignore her because it hasn't been 3 weeks yet. Even in my case I called Vickie Dachiu this year and asked what the shortest time she has seen between clutches was. She told me 10 days so i put mine in the nest box that day and she laid her next clutch. I wouldn't have put her in the nest box that day if I hadn't found out that sometimes it's way less than 3 weeks.

I also could have saved $150 if I believed that dragons could have eggs at 8 months and 250 grams.

you do have a point. But I don't feel your money was wasted, as it could have been something other than a clutch of eggs.

I can definitely indicate the full possible range and the averages when stating things like how long between clutches etc....
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PHLdyPayne