Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I wrote a note asking if I could tell if my BT could be obese. A better question is, should I keep feeding the full amount of mice he will eat, every day? He is about five pounds now (a wild guess), with an SVL of about 16 inches. He eats three large mice every day, and may be ready to eat four a day. His mid-section looks normally rotund to me, compared to pictures I've seen. He eats all the FT mice as soon as I present them to him. Should I let him free-feed like this while he is a juvvie?

He wanders his room, climbs, sheds, basks, rests, and AFIK acts normally, given his situation. He doesn't wander aimlessly like he might if conditions weren't good enough. He spends most of his time in the heated zone I made for him, where his skin temperature is 92F. I can't afford to keep the whole room at 85 all the time, but he uses his warm zone very dependably well. He chose a wide shelf six feet off the floor as his hang-out zone, or his home base, so that's the area I heat. The rest of his room gets no lower than 75F.

Roger

2 things, you never want the whole cage hot. You always want an isolated hot spot. That spot, the basking area should be at least 135F. then let the monitor determine how hot HIS body needs to be. monitors spend as little time possible basking. Basking is to allow the monitor to reach opperating temps for the task at hand. It should warm up then go do That task. To bask all the time or even a lot, only means your monitor is Not reaching its opperating temps.

Also, let the monitor fast, now and again. To clean out his GI track. You must consider, everyday, a schedule thing is only human. Your monitor is not human. cheers

His warm spot reads 140F on newspaper with a non-contact thermometer. I've measured his skin at around 100F a few times. He can lay anywhere he wants within his temperature gradient.

So about feeding, I'll feed him as much as he wants for two weeks, then skip five days, while he is still a juvvie. Does that sound ok?

Roger

News paper and 5 days without feeding?

Why do you ask for advice when you have no intent of following them?

It’s not only about heat, hydration is as important, without good hydration heat and food is not enough for your monitors growth. News paper sucks up moisture from the air, a terrible choice of substrate.

5 days without food is torture for any monitor, they are designed to feed regularly on smaller meals, when food is not available they have options to slow down there metabolism (do you provide such options?)

The truth is you don’t have a clue about these animals, in fact judging from the time you’ve been reading this forum, I say stop keeping them and stick to something you understand and can support properly.

Of course I know this post is a waste of my time, but perhaps others will make you understand what I obviously can’t get across.

I test basking zones by placing newspaper under the heaters, and adjust so I get a reading of 145F on the surface of he newspaper with my non-contact thermometer. Newspaper is not the substrate, I only use it to check the temperature of the warm area.

Frank advised to let my five-pound juvvie eat as much as it wants, and then let it go for a period of rest from eating. If it needs a rest from eating from time to time, I need to know the duration of the fast. It was an innocent question. I was trying to clarify Frank's answer to my post.

Roger

"Also, let the monitor fast, now and again. To clean out his GI track. You must consider, everyday, a schedule thing is only human. Your monitor is not human. cheers"

I'm not repeatedly asking the same question. I don't let any of my other creatures fast. But I don't know about Blackthroats. Please, guys, give me a break. Frank said "fast". Now I need to know how long and how often. I wasn't born with this information, and I want to do everything right for my BT.

Roger

Sorry about being so judgemental Roger, I don’t read all posts and sometimes miss the point.

I will let FR explain what he said, surly he did not mean for you to starve your monitor, or at least not without reservations..

Lizards do fast in nature, when conditions are not favourable ( too high- low temps) or when food is scarce (usually the result of droughts or cold) in these conditions lizards have the options to reduce metabolism by retiring into borrows or under decaying vegetation where its cool and allows there metabolism to slow down.

The danger with captives is mostly when we don’t allow them to slow there metabolism by reducing heat, it takes only a few days for a monitor to crash from dehydration when its not allowed to slow down while fasting. Of course savannah monitors are amongst the toughest monitors, they could suffer months of starvation in nature, but in a cage they are as fragile as any tropical species.

The water intake of monitors is mostly via prey, it was suggested that drinking is in relation to aide digestion in monitors, that dehydrated and starving monitors would often die even when water was available to them.

I have a collection of emerald tree boas sins 88, I remember the snake guys telling me to feed them once every few weeks, the motto was to starve them for better health, I would pass by there cages and if they showed feeding interest I would wait an other week before feeding, now that was the old way of thinking, it was the result of poor understanding.

Learn how to support your monitor, usually monitors kept in good conditions have no need for us to regulate there food intake, if we provide good foods and feed regular and consistently.

HAHHAHAHAHHA I just had an image of you starving him for 5 days and what will happen when you finally peak in his enclosure with thawed mice in the air on that sixth day. If he is anything like my monitors he will be doing mach-10, airborne with his mouth wide open heading for your face. Wait, mine do that after missing only one day of food hahahha. Anyway, good luck with that, let us know if you end up with stitches or broken bones.

Tom

Dude,

why is this so difficult for you? You consistantly ask the same basic questions. No matter how routine your life is and how hard to try to project that onto your monitor, your monitor does not care. Its a monitor, not a human. So you are going to not feed him for 5 days? How about on day 4.5 when your monitor is obviously starving and needs to be fed or it will die. Do you, 1)Feed it? or 2)Wait until day 5 because thats what your crazy routine says you should do?
Its a freakin living animal. Stop being so narrow-minded and oblivious. Feed it when it needs to be fed. If its getting obese, cut down the amount of food per feeding or adjust the heat and humidity. Its pretty simple. All you have to use is your brain.

You respond as if I plan to pracice that. FR said to let my BT fast. My post was a *question*, asking if that were an ok practice. It seemed implicit to me that someone would grasp that and give me a reasonable fasting period. To quote FR:

" Also, let the monitor fast, now and again. To clean out his GI track. You must consider, everyday, a schedule thing is only human. Your monitor is not human. cheers"

What is a reasonable fasting period, and how often should I do it? It seems to me that someone who knows this can give me a short, matter-of-fact answer.

Roger

Unfortunately nobody has all the answers. Frank has gotten to where he is because he comes up with new ideas and tests methods and uses what works best. As far as fasting goes, give him a day off per week, see if it gives you results you are looking for. If not, try something else. I don't think answers are as concrete as you are hoping for. Each monitor is different and the conditions they are kept in are all very different. Try different things and see what works best for your monitor. You will only know by trial and error and learning from what you observe.

How long should they fast? I was told by JC to NEVER fast my sav, not even for a day.

-----
Shannon in Reno
1 savannah monitor (Pombe-means "beer" in Swahili)
6 dogs
1 cat
36 rats
40 mice
54 chickens
3 beardies
1 black rat snake
~1000 hissers
1 giant milipede